Come in 81 Kilo: A Forever Knight Podcast

Come in 81 Kilo: A Forever Knight Podcast

menu close

Forever Knight (Season 3 Ep 11) - "Sons of Belial"

/ 02:10:05/E63
Rachel:

So you mind telling me why you're so familiar with biblical quotes?

Nick:

It's always a good idea to know what the other side is up to. Right.

Rachel:

Hi. I'm Rachel. And I'm Matt. And this is Come in 81 kilo. You got one job.

Matt:

An f k thing.

Rachel:

Hi. I'm Rachel. And I'm Matt. And this is Come in, 81 kilo.

Matt:

A forever night podcast.

Rachel:

Welcome back, friends. It made sense. Matt got possessed for a minute there.

Matt:

Yeah. This is gonna be a short one. Rachel's very preoccupied with Children of Dune, especially since children of Dune has a character that gets possessed. This episode of forever night has a character that gets possessed.

Rachel:

Good point. Good point. Yes. We are covering Children of Dune on Strange and Beautiful Book Club. And, like, 2 seconds for just a PSA, if you didn't know, we have an Instagram.

Rachel:

It's strange and beautiful network. We also have a website. Instagram. It's strange and beautiful network. We also have a website, strangeandbeautiful.club, if you need to find the links to anything.

Rachel:

And we have a recommendation form on that. I haven't got anything in a while. So, like, somebody boogie over there and give us some recommendations. It takes us a while to get to them, especially if their books are logbooks, but they go in the queue. I do check them all.

Rachel:

I write them all down. Please feel free to find us there. Also, we have a Patreon, and I've started putting up regular blog posts about my, like, sci fi adventure. So I'm doing a year in sci fi where I'm reading, sort of almost chronologically in order, sort of chronologically in order, kind of whatever I get from the library. But, chronologically in order from, like, classic sci fi to pulp sci fi to new age sci fi to cyberpunk and on through that.

Rachel:

So if you wanna keep us up with what I'm reading and the blog post that I'm posting about that, you can find us on Patreon. It is free.

Matt:

These posts are free.

Rachel:

These posts are free. We do other things for Patreon that are not free. Mainly chat with people on the discord. But if there were more people, like, nudge, nudge, I would definitely make more content for Patreon. So I just wanna we don't ever talk about it.

Rachel:

We used to say it in every podcast, but now I'm like, and it was when we had, like, 40 followers on Instagram. I'd be like, we got 50 followers. Oh, we're up to, like, 600 now. We're stuck at 600. I don't know.

Rachel:

I don't I don't have any feelings about that, but I would love to, you know, we'd love to grow. Of course we would, because building a community is part of what I wanted to do. And the more people that become part of the community, the more people can find each other, the more you can find your little weird nerd friends, or I can find little weird nerd friends. However that works out.

Matt:

That's the goal.

Rachel:

That's the goal. So this episode is forever knight season 3 episode 11, sons of Belial. I couldn't say it. Let's try it. Hang on.

Rachel:

Hang on. Sons of Belial.

Nick:

I am the son

Matt:

of Billy alone. Can you do,

Rachel:

like, a growl voice? Like, a low, like, real low voice?

Nick:

Like, real low.

Rachel:

Yeah. Can you do that? Say sounds spilly. I'll suck. Dig deep.

Rachel:

Real deep.

Nick:

I am the son of Belial.

Rachel:

Thank you. Thank you. I like to think that, Garrett did all of his voice acting for this, and they didn't use any kind of voice modulation. Then he literally was just like, okay. No.

Rachel:

I can do a demon voice. It's fine. Yeah. Oh, no. I I can motorboat that lady's tits.

Rachel:

You want me to do that? Not a problem. I am here for you. Whatever you need, I am here for you.

Matt:

This was the Geir improv episode, and everybody else just had to improv along with him.

Rachel:

They unleashed him on that woman is what they did. They were like, we need you to act like you are a man possessed. And he was like, I got you fam.

Matt:

Gare, do your thing.

Rachel:

Do your they didn't even no no instructions. Nothing. They were just like, woman, are you okay with this? And she looked at Gare and was like, I am perfectly okay with this, and then they just went at it. This episode.

Rachel:

You know what? I don't watch this episode very often for several reasons. I think we've mentioned I grew up extremely religious, and so this episode was really unsettling when I first watched it. And now the secondhand embarrassment of the end when he's on the table, and he's, like, writhing around. And they're doing the, like, camera right in front of his face, but it's that weird, like, 0.51, you know, like a like a fish lens almost right on his face, and it's just like, I can't.

Matt:

Yeah. That that seemed rough.

Rachel:

But we open on, like, a street busker performance. These people are out. Is it even that? It feels like bigger than that because they're playing drums, and then the guy's, like, climbing up the pole and playing on the cross.

Matt:

Oh, yeah. This is a whole band.

Rachel:

This is like a thing.

Matt:

This feels like live music at, like, as an event on the street or

Matt:

Flash mob.

Rachel:

Was it the Flash mob?

Matt:

Music for, like, a restaurant or something? Because there's, like, 6 or 8 people.

Rachel:

It's a whole ass drum set. There's a guy with drumsticks just drumming on everything. There's glitter on the drum head. There's a lot going on. And in the meantime, there's a police officer walking by kind of like on a beat, and he sees a woman asleep slash maybe dead in her car.

Matt:

Parked in an alley.

Rachel:

Parked in an alley. Of course. So he walks up, and he's like, ma'am, UK, and he checks on her. And then she wakes up and starts screaming at him in another language, which, of course, is Latin because Latin is the official language of hell. And she's driving a Dodge Ares.

Rachel:

He mentions that he's like, it's a Dodge Ares, and and I was like, well, I don't even recognize that symbol because it's like a pentagon. Did that used to be the Dodge symbol? Is that still the Dodge symbol? All I know is Dodge Ram, like the Ram trucks, because we live in the south, and I everybody drives trucks. In fact, we own a truck.

Matt:

A big gas truck.

Rachel:

A big gas truck, which I offset by also owning a Prius. So it's perfectly fine.

Matt:

We we balance out to an s

Rachel:

We do. We we balance out to an SUV. Yeah. We we roughly equal the, emissions of an SUV, and she ends up waking up and driving over this officer. Like, hitting him, he goes up on the hood, and then when she turns, he flies off, and he's like, no.

Rachel:

But, of course, he's already called for backup, so it's okay. Somebody comes to

Matt:

help him. With the license plate of the car, so she's not gonna escape this, or will she?

Rachel:

Or will she? Because she's driving off, and she's like sobbing, and the drums are playing in the background. I thought

Matt:

she was screaming, I hate that woman.

Rachel:

Could be.

Matt:

But I don't know if that was correct.

Rachel:

I think she's supposed to be screaming in Latin, but you know what? If you heard different things, that really fits with the aesthetic of this episode, so it's perfectly fine.

Matt:

Maybe I was just more sensitive to the demonic energies. Yeah. Like, Gare.

Rachel:

Like Gare.

Matt:

Because I'm internally

Rachel:

Are you internally conflicted? Completely. Do do you have a chink in which the devil can wend his way in because you aren't sure of who you are?

Matt:

Well, all of us contain God and the devil. Well, we learned that in this episode. Like, a 100 times.

Rachel:

Like a bunch. Like, I'm pretty sure that's legit. Like, I they took that from somewhere. Like, I've that's become part of me now.

Matt:

The scriptwriter really, really liked that metaphor.

Rachel:

Like the flashback in this episode. I always like the ones where I like the flashback, but the main story is just like, what the fuck is happening? It's kinda how I feel here. And there's definitely moments that I like in this episode. It's really just that end piece where he's on the table where if you have any amount of secondhand embarrassment, you're like, he had to do that in front of, like, all of the other actors, all of the set people, the camera, everybody.

Rachel:

He had to be like which I suppose you sign up for when you're an actor. You're gonna do ridiculous things in front of people. And, honestly, he was probably more embarrassed doing that than he was, like, face attacking that woman in the In the in the raven. Yeah. Yeah.

Rachel:

Well

Matt:

Oh, I don't think we saw beefcake beefcake booty shorts.

Rachel:

We weren't there long enough.

Matt:

Yeah.

Rachel:

Yeah. You are correct, sir. There is no beefcake booty short in the Raven this time. In fact, we just paused the episode and checked.

Matt:

Because that's what we do.

Rachel:

This is the level of dedication we bring to this podcast. Okay? And I think that our fans expect it, so we can't deliver any less. I can't say he's not in this, and then someone comments is like, yeah. He is, and sends me a screenshot.

Rachel:

That would be embarrassing.

Matt:

Embarrassing. Yeah.

Rachel:

Yeah. So the cool part about this opening, I think, is that we're using the drumming and her driving. Like, the drumming is amping up. The guy's climbing up the pole. He's banging on more stuff.

Matt:

He's getting more frantic. Is like an analog for her emotional state.

Rachel:

Yeah. Because it's ramping up higher and higher and higher. And finally, she drives through some construction, ends up driving off this bridge, taking a header into the road below. The car explodes.

Matt:

And there's a big drum crash.

Rachel:

Well, there's a vague Right

Matt:

at the explosion.

Rachel:

And then there's vague Gregorian chanting. Like, I've sung in, like, the last 4 episodes we do. I feel like it maybe need to be a thing now or not. Weigh in. Do you like me singing these or not?

Rachel:

Actually, I don't care about doing what I want anyway. So then we go to the intro. We go to the intro. That's it.

Matt:

But up.

Rachel:

That's the opening. But up. Yep. And then, we come back to Reese looking confused, which feels in character. It just Totally in character.

Rachel:

Yeah. I feel like Reese doesn't get why bad guys do what they do is in every single episode thing.

Matt:

That's his driving motivation for his entire career as a police officer is to just be dumbfounded at why why people would do illegal things.

Rachel:

Maybe it's his metric. Maybe he thinks if I ever understand it, that's the day I quit.

Matt:

So he's just always testing the waters. Yeah. I had a realization during this episode that Tracy is always putting out little feelers to see how safe is this environment to speculate about supernatural things. And that's pretty consistent.

Rachel:

She's always trying to figure out how much she can talk about what she knows.

Nick:

Right.

Rachel:

Because she and Nick haven't known each other that long.

Matt:

Right. Nick will always just boom. I know something about that in this, like, supernatural context.

Rachel:

The world like a mediocre white man. There is no situation where he feels uncomfortable, where he feels like he he can't be himself. He never feels the need to people please. He just slides through the water like a mediocre white man does, but a woman is always testing what who she can be in any situation. How much can I talk about the things that interest me, and how much will that make you think I'm weird?

Rachel:

And then all of a sudden, I'm in this odd little category where, like, you won't talk to me, and I can't get that back. So, I mean, I get it. I get weird. I do the same thing. I am a relatively odd person.

Rachel:

I wouldn't say I'm odd. I'm just me, I guess. And, like, I went to the craft store the other day, and I had on my Morticia Adams and Gomez Adams t shirt, And then I had on, like, a, I had a sweater on that had skulls on it. And then I have quite short hair and I dyed it red. And without really intending to, just having grabbed a few things and throwing them on to go to the craft store, I looked, fairly edgy, one would say, and I struggled to get served in the craft store.

Rachel:

And it's not like it's just that a woman is always having to be aware of what signals she's sending.

Matt:

I have to do that a little bit too because of my niche interests

Rachel:

contrasting. You were a mediocre white man.

Matt:

No. But well, for example, I went to go get the oil changed Yes. In the truck the other day. Mhmm. And I know where I live, so I put on my good old boy outfit Yeah.

Matt:

Which is like, blue jeans that are slightly dirty and worn in and a just bland hoodie and my leather boots and a baseball cap.

Rachel:

Yeah.

Matt:

And I walked in, and it was full of good old boys. And I did a little bit too good of a job, like passing the vibe checks. Gotcha. And so I think in the future, I need to tone it down, like, either, or, like, posture wise or the way I'm phrasing things when I'm greeting. I I think I need to tone down my greetings a little bit because I don't wanna get people's attention too much.

Matt:

Right. But, yeah, I put on this persona.

Rachel:

I think what the takeaway here is everyone is always a little bit aware of Yeah. What they're presenting. And Tracy just learned something really big. Except for Nick. Nick

Matt:

Nick has, Nick has a very severe threshold of, are my eyes glowing and are my fangs out? Yeah. And if those two questions are no He's doing great.

Rachel:

Well, I mean, one might argue that Nicholas Knight is in itself a persona.

Matt:

Absolutely. It is. Yeah. But it's it's Nicolas de Bourbon, the vampire without his glowy eyes or fangs.

Rachel:

Well, he's cosplaying as knickknack at all times. Right? That's why he's like, Vests? Hell, yeah. Vests.

Rachel:

And then vest didn't seem to be doing it anymore, so now he's moved on to, like, black button up shirts and sometimes jeans, which we all thank you for this decision, honestly. But, I mean, one could argue that the reason he moves through the world in the way he does might be because he is incredibly fluent in who he needs to be in every situation.

Matt:

Yeah.

Rachel:

So he may not need the it it may be instantaneous. He can take the measure of the room and figure out who he needs

Matt:

to be. Then we'll have a situation like this episode where Natalie will say, oh, there was lamb's blood. I don't I'm not sure how she identified lamb's blood versus other generic mammal blood.

Rachel:

Maybe Nick told her. That's lamb.

Matt:

But Nick was like, oh, yeah. Lamb's blood. Yeah. They used that in exorcisms back in the middle ages.

Rachel:

He's got approximate knowledge of a lot of things. Okay? That that is part of cosplaying as Nick Knight, so it's fine. He can do that.

Matt:

Well, I feel like that's a little bit him, like, failing in the failing to maintain his cover.

Rachel:

Well, Tracy calls him on it. Tracy calls him on it almost immediately. She goes, how come you know so much about this stuff? And he goes, I always like to keep up with what the other side is up to.

Matt:

I feel Tracy calls him out on it like Skanky never did. And so with Skanky, Skanky was always just like, oh, yeah. You must be one of those nerds

Rachel:

who just

Matt:

know random things.

Rachel:

This is where our fan canon really, really works.

Matt:

Okay.

Rachel:

The fact that we believe that Skanky knew what he was.

Matt:

That Skanky was aware.

Rachel:

And so Skanky was fully aware of what he was, and that's why he didn't ask. That's why that fan canon works.

Matt:

Yeah.

Rachel:

It's fan canon. I know it is. I know it's not real canon that we don't have any way of knowing whether or not Skanky actually knew or not, but it makes the skanky character better if he knew, and he was just like, I'm hands off on this. Right.

Matt:

It doesn't change anything, but it makes the perception better.

Rachel:

Yeah. And so he was deliberately ignorant. He deliberately did not ask clarifying questions because he didn't want to know the answer. Or like says in this one, of course, you don't ask because then you might get an answer.

Matt:

Right. Once the question is asked. Yeah. Yeah.

Rachel:

Okay. So we've derailed, but we're back. Reese remains confused is what I put in my notes.

Matt:

I think us getting derailed is on track.

Rachel:

You know what? It's on brand.

Matt:

On brand.

Rachel:

Yes. So Nick and Tracy are apparently already on a case, and they just show up. And Reese is like, what about that other case?

Matt:

Because they were the ones available.

Rachel:

Yeah. Well, Nick is like, well, we're waiting on stuff for that, and we kinda thought maybe there was something more to this. So we decided we'd show up and take a look at it, and Reese is like, you make a compelling argument. And they point out that there was a car that drove away and they're because they're here looking at the injured officer and they identified the car and it they found it because it got blowed up, and it contained a woman or the remains of a woman named Melanie Sawchuk. And Reese is like, cool.

Rachel:

What what the fuck's up that with that? And Nick is like, well, we gotta wait for an autopsy, so we figured we'd just, you know, come by and see what's going on. And so they're trying to talk about I think the guy's name is, like, it's, like, lost something or Mick. I don't know. The officer's name is something really strange.

Matt:

Oh, the officer there that

Rachel:

got run over. Yeah. And so Reese is like, oh, I don't know. He's not talking. We can't I don't know.

Matt:

Oh, yeah. Good luck. You're not gonna get much out of him.

Rachel:

Yeah. And Nick's like, well, let me take a crack at it. And so he walks over and she's like bubble bubble. What did you see? And he's like, a woman in a car.

Rachel:

And what he goes, oh, she has a pulse, and he's like, okay. The woman in the car. Okay. Alright. Let's keep going.

Rachel:

And he ends up getting from him that this lady, yelled something at him, and he's like, okay, well, what did she yell at you? And he says it, and it's like, hak malignant or something. And it's like something woman. I think I tried to figure it out, but Google was like, the fuck. I don't know what you're trying to figure out.

Rachel:

But it's something about a woman and then, like, something about bad. So it could be I hate this woman.

Matt:

Yeah. She could have started out saying it in Latin and then transitioned to English.

Rachel:

Yeah. And the car. I mean, very well could have been. And Nick is like, okay. So he sits up and Tracy's like, well, what was that?

Rachel:

And Nick was like, mom, sounded like Latin, but who knows? Nick knows.

Matt:

Nick knows exactly what it means.

Rachel:

Yeah. Yeah. He does. And Reese says, you know what? You guys are here.

Rachel:

This feels convenient. I don't want you to just run out the clock. I'm a civic minded dude. Why don't you work on this until there's some movement on your current case?

Matt:

The taxpayers need to get their money's worth out of you.

Rachel:

Yeah. So why don't you just run with this, see what happens? I mean, of course, it's an apparent suicide, but you can't just rule it a suicide. We need to figure out what it might be. And so we go to the morgue, and I wanna point out that for a show that literally nobody ever wrote down the canon on anything, Natalie always hates burn victims.

Rachel:

We couldn't be consistent about fuck all with Nick, but Natalie, goddamn it, always hates burn victims. She's like, ugh.

Matt:

I put this completely on Kathy.

Rachel:

Yeah. I was gonna say, that's exactly what I was gonna say. Catherine was probably like, doesn't Natalie hate burn victims? Should I say something about it?

Matt:

This has happened, like, twice already. This will be the 3rd time.

Rachel:

What? Please.

Matt:

Why are we talking about this casually? Natalie's traumatized. This is triggering for

Rachel:

me. Natalie fucking hates burn victims. Didn't you hear her heartfelt story to Cohen about that summer trip that she went on where those people got trapped in a car and they got burned? Didn't you hear that? I hate burn victims.

Rachel:

And so they come in and she's like, burn victims. My worst nightmare. And then she's like, here, wintergreen gel for the smell to, like, put under your nose. And Nick goes, oh, how are you doing? And Natalie says, I've gone through 2 jars already, and this woman is still in the body bag.

Rachel:

So shit. She's crazy. And Natalie is like, nah, I haven't really done her autopsy yet. She just got here. She's crispy critter.

Rachel:

I'm about to open her up and do the internal. I'm guessing you guys don't wanna be here for that. And Nick and Tracy are both like, that's a negative captain. We do not wanna be here for that. And she's like, okay.

Rachel:

But I got some notes from, like, whatever, the people that send me notes, and they said that, she has a next of kin, a brother, and you can go find him. Here you go. Here's the clipboard. And they go find this guy, which he's not at his house, and he's not at a place of business. He's Right.

Matt:

We just

Rachel:

a sex club.

Matt:

Whatever path that they took to find him Yeah. It's a deleted scene.

Rachel:

It's fine. Because what did they do? Go home and he had a post it note on his door that was like, tonight's my night to pick at the sex club. You wanna find me, that's where I'll be.

Matt:

Oh, they went where they went there and his roommate was there, it's like, oh, yeah. It

Rachel:

It's 3

Matt:

nights stay. Yeah. 3 nights a week, he's at the sex club. That's what the sign says.

Rachel:

And this is actually an actor from Dark Knight, which I was like, oh, it's doctor Dave, and Matt goes, I have no knowledge of what you're talking about. I don't know what that means.

Matt:

I don't

Rachel:

know what that means. He's one of the people experiencing homelessness from dark night. He's like, the doctor, the one that they meet

Matt:

outside the that was kind of enthusiastic about, plasma donation.

Rachel:

Yeah. Give a little, get a little. It's our way of giving back to society. That's this guy. Yeah.

Rachel:

And he's handing out pamphlets outside of sex show, sex shop, intimate sex. Club. Sex club.

Matt:

That's what the sign says.

Rachel:

Alright. Well, they come up and talk to him. They're like, hey. We're police officers, and he's like, I'm allowed to be here. I'm not harassing anybody because he's not stopping anybody.

Rachel:

He's just handing out pamphlets, and he ends up quoting scripture at them.

Brother:

I'm not interfering with any of the patrons of this establishment, sir. Isaiah chapter 55 verse 7. Let the wicked forsake his way, and the unrighteous man his thoughts. For the Lord sayeth, there is no peace unto the wicked.

Rachel:

And ends with, there's no peace unto the wicked. And Nick

Matt:

just completely normal to me.

Rachel:

You feel like that? Yeah. This kinda feels like living in. We live in we've lived in the Bible Belt for too long. That's why.

Matt:

Yeah.

Rachel:

Yeah. There's a there was a local restaurant. This is a side. I don't know. There was a local restaurant that had a, the only words I can think of are strip club, and that is not even remotely what it is.

Rachel:

Drag show. There's a restaurant in our town that had a drag show, and it got picketed. And the lady was like, you know what? The owner of the restaurant was like who was very civically minded and did a lot of stuff in the town was basically like, fuck y'all. Sold her restaurant and left.

Matt:

Wow.

Rachel:

Because she realized that this wasn't the kind of place where she wanted to be. Yeah. I respect that. So they tell him. They're like, you know, your sister, she dead.

Rachel:

And he's like, oh, cool. Unperturbed. It's like you you did have a sister. Right? You are the correct doctor Dave.

Rachel:

That's not his name. It's Dave's. You are the correct man. Right? And he's like, oh, no.

Rachel:

Yeah. No. I had a sister. That's I mean, I'm just really, okay. And they're like, was she suicidal?

Rachel:

And he goes, as there is God within us all, so there is the devil. That's number 1. That's the first time we met you.

Matt:

We should have had a counter.

Rachel:

We should have had a counter. And, he says she was a woman of sorrows acquainted with grief. And Nick knows the verse for that, and he stops and goes, paraphrased. Like, he says the chapter verse,

Nick:

and then

Matt:

he just goes another time where Nick is like, ancient Nick is leaking out through cop Nick.

Rachel:

Yeah.

Matt:

And nobody Well, he can,

Rachel:

you know, when he was with Skanky, he was accustomed to being just that little bit himself because Skanky never asked. And now that he's with Tracy, he can be just that little bit himself because it sort of is like a a joke. Is she gonna get it, or is she not gonna get it? Yeah. Because she has all the tools.

Rachel:

Is she gonna put all the pieces together or not? So it has to be kind of like he could have gone one way or the other. He could have really doubled down and tried to never say anything that could be misconstrued, or he could do whatever the fuck he wants and just see what happens. And I think he fell on the I'm a do what I want and see what happens. Right.

Matt:

And I think the the thing that's working against Tracy in figuring figuring it out is she trusts Vashawn too much, and Vashawn has told her that Nick is not a vampire.

Rachel:

I don't think he ever explicitly said he's not

Matt:

a vampire.

Matt:

I don't think he ever explicit, but they both played along that Vashawn is a vampire. Nick is not. Yeah. They did the hypnotizing thing. Know about vampires.

Rachel:

Yeah.

Matt:

And and so Tracy is like, oh, like the whole line of thought, Nick just said something weird. What else could be weird about Nick? Let me assemble the facts.

Rachel:

Well, Nick's just weird.

Matt:

All of all of that, like, recognizing, like, here's all these flags. Yeah. There's something weird about Nick. Anytime she starts going down that line of thought, it's immediately short circuited by, oh, but Vashon hypnotized him. He can't be a vampire.

Matt:

Be a vampire.

Rachel:

Yeah. Because she says that episode, she says Nick has no memory of what happened. Like, he doesn't even he doesn't know anything about it. And Vashawn's like, oh, is that what he told you? And then later when she's like, Nick never believes me.

Rachel:

He's such a skeptic.

Matt:

Vashon does

Rachel:

And Vashon goes praise

Matt:

everything very carefully.

Rachel:

Yeah. He never confirms or denies, which I think is a good step for the that character and for the show

Nick:

Yeah.

Rachel:

Because he he's never like, oh, no. Nick's not a vampire. The one thing that he does is pretend to hypnotize him, and I guess maybe that was enough for Tracy. So we go back to the morgue because he ends up blowing them off. He's like, yeah.

Rachel:

Yeah, sister. Very sad. I've got my sex pamphlets to hand out.

Matt:

Oh, on a side note? This is another episode with no fashion.

Rachel:

Oh, yeah. Dang. You got hot boy vampire who rode in on a motorcycle, and we're not even using him. Maybe he was off to another

Matt:

Speaking of the motorcycle, the motorcycle's back.

Rachel:

The wig was at the dry cleaners. In Nick's apartment. The motorcycle we're not there yet.

Matt:

Oh, so how do we

Rachel:

We gotta gotta go in order. It's our shtick. So they go back to the more It's

Matt:

your shtick. I I pull us off the You do. Linear path.

Rachel:

You do. You're kind of, like, in a video game, you know, the mine cart level in the video game when you're in the mine cart. And every once in a while, you're going around a curve, and you have to, like, lean the controller to keep you from flying off the curve. I'm the controller trying to keep us on, and you're the the, rocks falling down trying to knock the mine cart off the track. I like how you just nodded in agreement.

Rachel:

You were like, that's a completely appropriate metaphor.

Matt:

Oh, I I was thinking of a much more obscure metaphor, but

Rachel:

Oh, no. Please enlighten us. I'm here for it. Let's what is what is it?

Matt:

Okay. So Yep. In cognitive science, most of the functions of the brain boil down to, like, opponent processing of 2 different parts of the brain kind of competing. Which one has a, like, better summary of the relevant facts that are useful for, like, ac deciding what to do. And the reason you do that is so that you can actually have, like, a competition, and I'm being recorded.

Matt:

I can't I can't gesticulate to move

Nick:

the brain.

Rachel:

I was trying to capture how much you move your hands to explain why there are certain mic hits. I just can't edit out. But no. Please continue.

Matt:

Okay. Opponent processing is right. You more relevant, accurate functionality

Rachel:

Okay.

Matt:

In things. And so there's, there's a thing that human brains do, and there's a thing that they've started that, I guess, they do in training AI models. When you have this stuff compressing the information down to, like, useful trends, you can overly fit to the data. If you have a bunch of data points and you, like, find a linear regression where you find a curve that fits most of the data, you can find a a random curve that hits every single data point, but that's not accurate to the trend. And so to fix to make the the model more accurate to the trend rather than overfitting to the data, you throw random noise Okay.

Matt:

Into the training data.

Rachel:

So your noise in the training data. Okay.

Matt:

When you're this happens just in the way brains work, this happens when you're training AI models now because they found it's a useful, like, cognitive mechanism that actual brains use. They just throw random data into the training set because the whole process that optimizes for the, like, best model based on the data gets a better outcome if you just throw in random noise. That's irrelevant.

Rachel:

Gotcha. I thought it was gonna be a sci fi fantasy reference, but cognitive science is perfectly fine too. So thank you for that.

Matt:

You're welcome.

Rachel:

Okay. So we go back.

Matt:

That's my role here.

Rachel:

Because I'm You're cutting you're breaking noise training the model. Got you.

Matt:

It it makes the model more resilient.

Rachel:

Oh, it does. I would agree. Because I have to be, like,

Matt:

what were we talking clarify.

Rachel:

Yeah. Because usually your stuff is just totally off the wall, and I have to figure out how that related.

Matt:

And then we have to throw some context back in, and it keeps the viewer on track You

Rachel:

know what?

Matt:

When we

Matt:

get back to the next point.

Rachel:

If we just talked through the synopsis, what's Boring. No. No. No. No.

Rachel:

No. That is not why we are here. The synopsis is a framework on which we build our episode. It is not the episode. So we go back to the morgue speaking, and Natalie's like, she had traces of lamb's blood in her system.

Rachel:

This is when she holds up the little lamb.

Matt:

Like, a

Matt:

half a vial of, bleach half

Rachel:

a little tissue. Watched doctor g medical examiner. They removed stomach contents with an actual fucking soup ladle. There's no way she had just isolated lamb's blood that she should eat

Matt:

lamb's blood.

Matt:

There was traces of lamb's blood in her stomach

Rachel:

Yeah.

Matt:

And no traces of anything else. Oh. Which means she had been fasting for, like, 12 hours beforehand.

Rachel:

Well, there's still bile.

Matt:

Well, there's still bile. Yes.

Rachel:

But I don't know. I don't know why she knew it was lamb's blood. I know nothing. I have not nothing. Okay?

Rachel:

No context. She sniffed it, and she was like, it doesn't smell like cow.

Matt:

And you do blood type tests.

Rachel:

Yeah. But not immediately.

Matt:

Different animals have different blood types.

Rachel:

Yeah. I mean, she would know if you sent it out. She didn't, what, like, look at this

Matt:

or anything like that. You can do, like, do it in, like, 10 test tubes, and you just put a little reagent in each different one that reacts to a specific blood type.

Rachel:

But why would she have that in the morgue? Is it cow? Is it rat? Is it cat? Is it dog?

Rachel:

Is it lamb? Is it

Matt:

Why? Because Natalie's a boss.

Rachel:

She's a fucking boss. That's how she knew, and that's it. That's good. You know what? I'm just gonna leave it right there.

Rachel:

And she says she drank it. It was in her stomach. She goes, but I can't figure out why. Like, she's not standing right next to a vampire. Why would you ever drink blood?

Rachel:

And Nick is like, I know why. And he goes into a flashback. Wham. He, like, leans on the table. Is the body still on the table?

Rachel:

Does he lean on this woman's charred legs and, like, leans forward? And it's Nick and Lacroix and, surprise, motherfuckers, they were at the inquisition.

Matt:

I feel like only one of the guys in here actually had a good, like, Spain Spanish accent.

Rachel:

1 guy that comes in does. 1 of the priests that comes

Matt:

in Because he says Barcelona.

Rachel:

Barcelona. He sounds Spain Spanish. Everybody else sounds like not. But there's a

Matt:

couple I

Rachel:

mean, it's not like Spain.

Matt:

Other guy, the one of the, like, pre one of the inquisitors. Yeah. He has a good Spanish, like, enunciation, but it sounds I don't know, like, very academic Uh-huh. Like, Spanish. Next And then everybody else is like, I took Spanish in high school for 2 years.

Rachel:

Speaks Spanish one time. He gets, like, 3 words, and this feels intentional because it's not great. It's not like Spain has one accent. They have northern and just like we have northern accents and southern accents and

Matt:

Like doctor New says, every planet has a north.

Rachel:

Every planet has a north. And you can't, like, across the board, be like, they don't sound like they're from Spain because northern Spanish accents sound way different. Yeah. Not Catalonian. Catalonia is its own separate thing.

Rachel:

Barcelona, Catalonia. Catalonia is actually its own separate language. Okay. And every once in a while, they're like Texas, but, like Yeah.

Matt:

They keep trying to

Rachel:

say Texas. They'll be like, can we be our own country? And Spain's like, fucking no.

Matt:

No. You you have

Rachel:

Fucking no.

Matt:

You bring too much money.

Rachel:

You have Gaudi. You can't secede. So Gaudi? Gaudi is a famous architect, and he lived in Barcelona, and he built a bunch of stuff. And everybody that goes to Spain to see architecture, you go to see Gaudi.

Matt:

Okay.

Rachel:

And so and he's in Barcelona. So they you can't leave. That's what tourists are here for, and no one would visit Spain without you. There's Seville and Madrid, and it doesn't matter. So, as just I'm sure we have one listener who has weighed in on Spanish before, and that's Maria.

Rachel:

And she, she commented when we talked about the Spanish in the episode, Black Buddha, when the Inca shows up and he's yelling at Tracy in Spanish, even though we know he speaks English. And she said that it wasn't great in that either. So I have to imagine it ain't great. Although a couple of the people actually sound like they might actually speak Spanish, like, actual language. But there's only one person who has a recognizable Spanish accent, the stereotypical one where they sound like they have a lisp.

Rachel:

They don't have a lisp, but it sounds like you have a lisp. But, anyway, that's neither here nor there. Because the important part here is that Nick and Lacroix got captured by the inquisition. They got picked up while they were sleeping, apparently. Ugh.

Matt:

Like Lacroix sleeps.

Rachel:

Because well, it's day. It's day. And in the first season, they're actually semi comatose during the day. Mhmm. That I mean, that didn't mean anything, but and they're painting the door in lamb's blood, which both make them look like, and it's like, they're supposed to be repelled by it, but maybe it just smells bad.

Rachel:

Like, nobody likes his cow's blood either.

Matt:

Right. So I was thinking

Rachel:

You're like,

Matt:

oh, gang. Lamb's blood, like, they can drink, like, mammal blood. Like, though, they've never said anything about, like, specific blood they can't drink Yeah. As long as it's, like, red mammal blood. Yeah.

Matt:

And I I think you're on to something there. Maybe, like, of all the different mammal bloods that you can drink, maybe cow is like, like, either has almost no flavor or just has a weird, like, musk to it.

Rachel:

Soy blood. It's fine.

Matt:

Like, it's it's not good. It's just Yeah. Bleh.

Rachel:

Man. It's abundant. It's available, and it ain't shit. Right. So

Matt:

But then lamb's blood probably just stinks, and so they stay away from it. Yeah.

Rachel:

Like garlic. Why would you stay away from garlic? Well, because it smells bad.

Matt:

Yeah. And Well, it smells strongly.

Rachel:

Well, they get pushed in here, and they, like, like, walk around the sunlight. And then one of their cellmates is like, oh, how'd you guys get here? And they're like, oh, they took us while we're sleeping. They said we're in league with the devil. And their cellmate is like, are you are you though?

Rachel:

Like, are you in league with the devil? And Lacroix is like, well

Matt:

There is no devil.

Rachel:

Semantics. Actually, Lacroix says God and the devil are human inventions so that you can slaughter people without accountability.

Nick:

This god and this devil are a mere human contrivance and convenience. They offer the justification for slaughter without the tricky business of accountability.

Matt:

And And

Rachel:

then you can ask for forgiveness when you're done. That's the whole point. And so the guy goes, oh, are you guys, like, non believers? And Nick says, if there is a God, he has yet to show himself to me. And Lacroix is like he just chuckles at Nick, and Nick's over, like, fucking shut up.

Matt:

Lacroix is suspiciously unconcerned about this whole thing.

Rachel:

The yes. All the way up until the very end, Lacroix is like, we're gonna get out of this. I have survived worse than worst. We're fucking vampires. I survived a fucking volcano.

Rachel:

Okay? I can survive the inquisition. We're gonna get out. It's gonna be fine. We get to kill people.

Rachel:

It's a win win. I don't know. I got woken up. I got brought to a buffet, and now I just have to wait till the buffet opens, which is, Chuck's watch sunset. And this is when the guy is like, well, there might be evil within you, but there is God also, which is ding ding, twice.

Rachel:

That's twice. So then we come back because Tracy is like, Nick, Nick, are you in there? I am now. He comes back. Just disassociated for a second.

Rachel:

It's fine. And he's like, you know, I was just thinking. I I think we need to go find out more about Melanie Sawchuk. And Tracy goes, why?

Matt:

Come on, Tracy. Keep up. There's She died.

Rachel:

They're standing over her charred remains, and she's like, why would we investigate this one?

Matt:

Why would we need to find out more about her, Nick? Explain it to me like I'm 5.

Rachel:

I don't know. Maybe because we're investigating her, Tracy?

Matt:

It's literally your job, Tracy, come on.

Rachel:

So they go to her apartment, and Nick, I think he makes, like, a Bible reference, a quote. No. He's

Matt:

I I I think the the implication was supposed to be Tracy was suspicious about how interested Nick is in pursuing this investigation.

Rachel:

Yeah. And he knew the thing about the lamb's blood. He was like, oh, you know, that used to be used in ancient exorcism rituals. And that's when Tracy's like, why do you know so much about this stuff? And he says, it's always good to know what the other side is up to.

Matt:

But when Tracy is like, why? It just comes off like

Rachel:

But why though?

Matt:

Why? Like, why are we even here?

Rachel:

Well, it could be more of a why. Like, I know we're gonna investigate Melanie Sawchuk. I know we're gonna do it because she got murdered.

Matt:

But, like, why is that your highest priority?

Rachel:

Why for you are we investigating Melanie Sawchuk?

Matt:

I think that's what the writers probably had in mind. Yeah. But the way it just plays

Rachel:

Is why? Yeah. But I really think it's more like, what does this mean to you? Like, this is a thing we're doing to pass the time while we're waiting for other paperwork to come in. So why are you all of a sudden, like, let's go all in?

Matt:

I saw an Instagram reel, and there was an interview with the guy who is the English voice actor for Goku in Dragon Ball Z.

Rachel:

Yeah. You said that to me.

Matt:

And so he said they like, he took the job. He was in the office for a little while. Like, he sees sees the picture of Goku ever Goku's the main character of the entire show. But his boss who likes to, like, tease him about stuff, his boss didn't, like, tell him. And so Goku's like a himbo.

Matt:

Like, he's he's this buff, like, strong guy.

Rachel:

But just a nice

Matt:

But he's completely oblivious about like, anything practical, he's got nothing. Yeah. And so he said it was, like, 2 weeks in, and he was just he said he was struggling to just really wrap his head around this character. And one day, his boss comes in, leans his head in the room, and says, you know, you're the main character of this entire show. And he said he responded with, like, oh, wow.

Matt:

Really? Wow. That's cool. And he said, that's when the character in his clicked in his mind. Like, he said it was life imitating art.

Rachel:

Well, he got he goku'd out is what he said. Yeah.

Matt:

So I feel that that's the vibe Tracy is getting off.

Rachel:

Yeah. I love that she's like I think, you know, what's happening here?

Matt:

Just this this particular conversation.

Rachel:

Well, we had that long discussion at the beginning of this episode, how sometimes the way you present yourself is a signal. Mhmm. And she's a attractive, thin blonde woman. It's really hard for her to say something that gets taken seriously. Yeah.

Rachel:

Especially in the nineties in this context. And she's supposed to be way younger than everybody else. It's like having a teenager tag along with you, and they're like, but why though? And no matter how they ask that, it's never gonna sound deep even if they're like, but why? You're gonna be like, come on, honey.

Rachel:

Do you not did you not pick it up? We're investigating a murder. And what she's really asking, I think, is like, why for you? So into this? Why for you?

Rachel:

Yeah. Why for you? Yeah. Because as soon as we as soon as he makes the announcement about lamb's blood, how it's used in exorcisms, they go to her house, and there's a broken window, and Tracy's like, there's blood on this window. And Nick and Nick is unconcerned.

Rachel:

He does not check the window. He's like, oh, cool. She's like, maybe somebody jumped out, and he was like, it's broken glass. You cut yourself. Why is the fucking window broken?

Matt:

We never go back to that.

Rachel:

We don't go back to that at all. We're like

Matt:

Unless it was just her going insane.

Rachel:

It was her first, attempt on her life that night. I don't know. Like, nobody they they're just like, oh, okay. Cool. They don't take samples.

Rachel:

They don't take evidence. They're not wearing gloves. They just walk into this woman's house, and they're like, oh, the window's broken, and there's glass on it. Oh, I hope she didn't cut herself when she broke it. That's really sad.

Rachel:

Maybe that's what's oh, well, what? And then Tracy's like, oh, it's really cold in here. You know, the fucking window's open. Like What

Matt:

does she she shivers when she tucks touches this book Yeah. And then with her bare fingers.

Rachel:

And then they flip the book over, and it's just like, ectotherm. Dummy's Guide to Exorcism. It's literally like, so you wanna be an exorcist?

Matt:

Exorcism for dummies, a historical perspective. Lamb's blood. Oh, it's written by ex reverend VanderWaal. Is it? Oh, no.

Matt:

I'm just putting that bullshit out there.

Rachel:

Oh, it could be. I don't know. I didn't even look.

Matt:

I wonder if it's a real book. Like, if somebody was just at, like, a used bookstore down the road No. And they're like, we're doing this. Possession efforts would have been

Rachel:

fucking hysterical if they flipped it over and it was the denied.

Matt:

Oh, that would have been a really nice callback.

Rachel:

It would have been a good but alas, it's just like exorcism. And he's like, oh, guys. I think this book's about exorcism. And then they go back to the precinct, and Reese is like, are you guys fucking serious about this? Are you telling me you think this woman might have been possessed?

Rachel:

And Tracy's like, I don't know, captain. It was really cold

Matt:

there. So Reese is like, well, you said the window was broken. Right?

Rachel:

And it's October.

Matt:

Remember, it's October. We're in Canada.

Rachel:

We're in Canada. Do you not see the picture? Canada. Do you not?

Matt:

Do that. That's for you, Meg.

Rachel:

There's a Korean drama, called goblin, which is really, really good. And there's a part where the 2 main characters go to Canada. And so the girl is like, are we in Canada? But when she says Canada, she says Canada because she's speaking Korean. And so every when we were in Canada, every time we had to say Canada to Mary.

Matt:

Well, we tried to get Meg to watch it, and she was

Rachel:

She was outraged.

Matt:

Not into it. No.

Rachel:

So Canada?

Matt:

Just riffing off of her outrage. We kept saying.

Rachel:

So, anyway, that's not we love Korean people. Okay. So

Matt:

k drama is high culture.

Rachel:

It is high culture. So it's October. It's Canada. Did you not see the picture of me? Right?

Rachel:

Like, whenever they're walking in the set into the police precinct set, there's a picture of Reese up on the wall, and it's him next to a Canadian flag. Like, just so you guys know, Reese is Canadian. If you didn't get that from him liking hockey. So Nick is trying to

Matt:

I am totally convinced. Well, Clark,

Rachel:

that seals

Matt:

it. Coffee. No. Hockey. Not coffee.

Rachel:

He likes coffee.

Matt:

Hockey. Hockey. Hockey.

Rachel:

Nick's trying to interrogate the brother, and he's like, so your sister was possessed by the devil, and you got her an exorcism. To I'm I I'm asking you. Am I I feel like when I'm talking to the kids and they won't respond

Matt:

This guy is doing really, really good at being just playing it straight.

Rachel:

Yeah. This feels like when I'm talking to the kids and they don't respond, and I'm like, my mouth is moving, and it feels like sound is coming out. Can you guys hear me? And they they go, yes. Like like, it's the lamest question ever.

Rachel:

Well, you weren't answering me. I didn't know. He's not answering him. And so, finally, he's like, look. I get it.

Rachel:

You're a religious man. You don't wanna lie. I don't wanna hear you lie either, so just tell me the truth. It's fine. Like, I'm not gonna what what what's the worst that could possibly happen?

Rachel:

Just tell me the truth. Did she have an exorcism? And finally, he's like, yes. I took her to a bunch of doctors. I took her to psychiatrist.

Rachel:

I tried everything. She just wasn't getting better, and it's because it wasn't in her mind. She was literally pro possessed by the spirit.

Matt:

It was spiritual illness.

Rachel:

Yeah. And the goodness in her was being consumed by evil.

Matt:

She had a spiritual infection.

Matt:

Yeah.

Rachel:

And she needed a spiritual animal. Let's get that out.

Matt:

Spiritually transmitted disease.

Rachel:

I watched I watched Dracula dead and loving it the other day, and I totally forgot about the running enema joke. Have you tried an enema? Do you think an enema would solve that? I think we need to bring that back. Just do you think an enema would solve that?

Rachel:

A spiritual enema from doctor van der Waal, who's from everything. He's, like, such a nineties actor. As soon as you see him, you're like, whoosh. He's in, like, legit everything. And then I think it's because he had that really stunning voice.

Matt:

Oh, yes. He has a very distinct voice.

Rachel:

Yeah. He says he tried to help her with doctors, but it was her soul. It was her soul that was sick. And he talks to Nick, and he says, there is a devil detective, and he has every bit as real as you or me. And it's so traumatizing, it sends Nick into a flashback.

Rachel:

And it's LaCroix chatting with their cellmate, Sancho, who is the the actual good guy. And he's like, okay. So what did you do to get here? And Lacroix is, like, leaning on the wall in this really awkward position. I was possessed by very valuable land right near Barcelona.

Rachel:

And LaCroix goes, ah, yes. The greatest fault in the eyes of the inquisitor. And then he turns to the guy who's legit chained to the wall, and he's like, what about you? And the guy goes, I am no more a devil than you are.

Matt:

Oh.

Rachel:

And Lacroix goes, I quite agree. Why

Matt:

Lacroix's just having a great time.

Rachel:

Why give glory to a devil other than yourself?

Quote:

Has been marked by the beast.

Rachel:

I am no more

Matt:

a demon than you are.

Nick:

I quite agree. Why give glory to a devil other than yourself?

Matt:

That align only Lacroix

Matt:

could cover.

Rachel:

Which is the most Lacroix bullshit I can ever imagine anyone spouting. He's like, you know all that shit that I did? I fucking did it, and I'm not giving anyone else credit. Don't even ask. Did I murder everyone?

Matt:

Cheapen my history.

Rachel:

I did all of that.

Matt:

That's my legacy.

Rachel:

The part where I made an entire arm where I gave an entire army permission to rape and pillage, that was me. The part where I've murdered, like, half a 1000000 people because I'm 2,000 fucking years old, all me. I get no cop outs. I own that shit. I did that.

Rachel:

That's who I am. And that is so fucking LaCroix, and I fucking love it. I love

Matt:

Don't reduce me to a puppet.

Rachel:

I love an evil character that is literally, like, you don't understand. I'm not locked in here with you. You're locked in here with me. And so they come in and they're like, hey, guys. Time for us to take one of you.

Rachel:

And so they take the guy who's legit chained to the wall, and this guy starts shouting in Spanish, including, like, bellial. So, obviously, this dude is actually possessed. I think that's what we're supposed to be getting. And we come back to the to present time because the guy's still talking, and he's like, Satan takes hold of people, detective. He he sends his angels, and he promises you power and eternity.

Rachel:

And Nick is like, yeah. I know. I know this is better than most people, and the guy keeps going. He's like, the devil has to be driven out. So if you have the devil in you, it must you gotta get that shit out.

Rachel:

It's like an evil pimple. You gotta pop it. And so he asks about his sister, and he's like, well, is that why? Like, do you think that's why she did what she did? And the brother is like, yeah.

Rachel:

She must have killed herself to be free of the demon's influence. The devil our beliefs compel us to work against Satan. So if what she needed to do to end Satan's influence in her life was end her life, then, yes, that's what she did. And Nick is like, okay. Cool.

Rachel:

But you sent her to somebody. Who did you send her to? I just need a name. And he tells him. He's like doctor Max Vanderwall.

Matt:

Okay. So one of the ideas I wanted to talk about here in reference to this episode is the idea of Satan as, like, an individual who's, like, the enemy of God and actively works evil and mischief and whatever in humanity Yeah. Is newer than Lacroix. Yeah. Especially when you start talking about Lucifer who is a character in, like, Christian fan fiction.

Rachel:

Yeah. I mean, so Pompey arrives in 79 AD.

Matt:

Right.

Rachel:

Yeah. So he's only he only

Matt:

A a lot of the, like, formalization of Satan like, Satan, like, with a capital s as a pronoun, like, a name of a single person, entity, whatever, doesn't get used much until, like, the 2nd century when they're putting the rest of the Bible together. So Lacroix would have gotten turned into a vampire, and he was probably up to speed on most of the religious drama Yeah. Especially with the Roman Empire and the Christians and all that. So as he's being a vampire, fucking his way through Europe, he he's probably learning like, hearing he's probably hearing the people talk about it, you know, over the years decades.

Rachel:

There's this weird cult that just won't seem to go away. Yeah. And Yeah.

Matt:

Now they're talking about Satan as, you know, the the general of this army that actively works against God. Yeah. It's like, what the fuck is this? This is somebody's making up new stories.

Rachel:

You know what it'd probably feel like?

Matt:

Mhmm.

Rachel:

You you're, like, 20 ish, 30 ish maybe when, you know, like, Star Wars has been out for, like, 30 years. You're born, and there's a whole bunch of people who are super fans of star wars, and you're like, okay. That's, like, cool. Star wars is I mean, it's fine. And for a while, it's like, well, this isn't really gonna catch on.

Rachel:

Right? And then it sort of disappears, and then you live long enough to see Star Wars come back, and then Star Wars get more and more and more properties associated with it and create a larger and larger following. And then

Matt:

you keep retconning things into the original story.

Rachel:

You literally live long enough that Star Wars has become an actual religion and everybody believes in it, but you remember that it was just this science fiction bullshit that somebody wrote down, like, a couple 1000 years ago, and everyone is acting like it's this big deal. And to you, it's not a big deal because you remember when star wars came out. Are you, like, you were around right around the time star wars came out and it started to get big and you're like, but fucking what?

Matt:

Right. So so I can see why Lacroix is so dismissive of any all of these claims. Yeah.

Rachel:

He's like, the devil sure what the fuck ever.

Matt:

So yeah. The devil, Satan. Uh-huh. Yeah. Like

Matt:

Do you

Rachel:

know how many religions I've gone through in the time that I've been alive? And then everyone's, like, trying to get him to be on their side, and he's like, fucking no. Like, I no. He wasn't even it's not that he wasn't raised religious. This religion did not exist when he was young.

Rachel:

Right. So of course he's not that what the Bible says. Alright. God struck me down there. So that's why the Bible says you have to train up a child early, because if you don't, they'll never believe, and it's literally because you have to indoctrinate a child young in order to believe the ridiculous bullshit that's required to believe in Christianity.

Rachel:

So Lacroix didn't

Matt:

Modern mainstream Christianity.

Rachel:

Yeah. The Yeah. Hyper I'm talking codified.

Matt:

The corporate Yeah. Corporatized Yeah. Dogmatic Christianity.

Rachel:

So Lacroix didn't even have that a little bit. He believed there were, like, a bunch of gods, and they all lived on a mountain, and they could come down and fuck people and have half gods who would go on adventures. Like, that's what he came up in. And then all of a sudden, you're like, no. There's 2.

Rachel:

There's the God, and there's God, like, the God, and then there's the devil, like, the devil, like, the bad guy.

Matt:

Right. Capital s, Satan.

Rachel:

Yeah. And they rule the world, and you either follow 1 or you follow the other, and there's no middle ground. And he's like, I I am not receiving that. I reject all of that. It sounds like bullshit.

Rachel:

No. Thank you. And then he turns

Matt:

He's just making shit up now.

Rachel:

Then he turns, Nick, and Nick won't give up Star Wars, like, to turn out on the chest. He's like

Matt:

he's like, no. I want to be a Jedi.

Rachel:

He's like, no. Look. I was there when they made Star Wars, and I'm telling you, it's just a story. And Nick is like, it is more than a story. It is my life.

Rachel:

I will not give up on my dreams. And, like, was finally, like, fucking fine. Whatever. It's fine. In fact, I think it's mostly in this episode where he's like, fucking fine.

Rachel:

Like, whatever it takes to if I have to give a little to get a little, I can give a little, but they come out of the, they come out of the room, the interrogation room, and Tracy's like, do you think the devil exists? Do you really believe the devil exists?

Nick:

Well, a lot of people do. Maybe that's all it takes.

Reese:

I gotta admit, you just look around these days, it's not hard to see the signs. Although, if the devil did make her do it, I'd like to see anyone try to prosecute her.

Matt:

Her. And Nick in Lacroix style does not No. Directly answer.

Rachel:

Reese kind of agrees. He's like, yeah. I mean, he's like, oh, but It's

Matt:

like, I can see why people might think that based on what I've seen, like, happening in, like, the world around me.

Rachel:

Nick actually says, maybe it's because enough people believe he's real.

Matt:

And that's all it takes.

Rachel:

And that's all it takes. And Reese is like, nah. I mean, I do up until somebody tries to say the devil made me do it, and then that's never gonna work as a defense. And that's his only response too. Everyone's like, Tracy, fucking what?

Rachel:

And

Matt:

Right. This is that's where I was really feeling like, Tracy's always just putting little she's putting out little emotional bids.

Rachel:

Little bids. Sometimes they're big bids. Yeah. Yeah. And Reese goes, you know what?

Rachel:

Just go confirm this priest's alibi, and either he doesn't have one and you can continue this investigation, or he's got one, and you can just write this off as a, quote, crazy lady suicide. K. So they show up at VanderWaals, and he opens the door, and he's like, hi. And they're like, oh, hey, sup. We're here to see you.

Rachel:

And he's like, mom, just a little bit busy.

Matt:

Right. I like how he's a little bit busy, and then it's like, nah. Come in while I finish this exorcism.

Rachel:

Oh, it's fine. He's strapped to the table. He ain't going nowhere. Well, actually, Nick walks in. He's trying to tell him, like, no.

Rachel:

Thank you, and Nick's like, cool. Thanks. And he just walks around him and walks in. And he, like, scowls up at a cross, but he doesn't burst into flames, and he's not hissing or running away

Matt:

or anything. We've established throughout the seasons that Nick is becoming more and more resistant or less susceptible to religious, I can agree. Religiously endowed items.

Rachel:

Yeah. Well, he says, so you're a priest. Did you get kicked out? And he's like, actually, I got excommunicated.

Matt:

He said he asks him if he retired.

Rachel:

Oh, yeah. And he goes, no. I was forcibly retired, excommunicated because I, I was a little too devoted to the old ways of the religion. And Nick is like, okay. Alright.

Rachel:

Sounds good. I also have old ways of following this religion, probably older than yours. Yeah. And so Tracy's like, okay. Well, do you live in Toronto?

Rachel:

Like, are you from around here? And he goes, if evil took up permanent residence here, so would I.

Matt:

I would like to note the crispness of the second t when Tracy says Toronto.

Rachel:

Oh, maybe she's not from Toronto.

Matt:

Toronto.

Rachel:

There are no t's. This is canon. It is c h r o n o, Toronto.

Nick:

Yep.

Rachel:

Yeah. So Nick looks over at the door like, there's shit going on behind that door. And then he keeps trying to he's, like, inching towards the door through this whole thing. Like, I'm just gonna go look at these books over here, which are closer to the door. Oh, would you look at that thing that's closer to the door, which the priest calls him out on.

Rachel:

But, the priest does admit van der Waal admits that Melanie was there, but the devil she had in her was very powerful, and he is shocked, but not surprised that it overcame her. And she possibly committed suicide. And Nick is like, well, we're just trying to understand. And he goes, meh, how many

Matt:

suicides succumbed to the demon.

Rachel:

Yeah. And he's like, meh, how many suicides are ever fully understood anyway? And I just wanna point out when you're listening to this on headphones, the background is extremely obvious, and I don't think I have ever noticed how much background noise is in these old television shows until you listen to them. But in this scene, there is music playing that straight up sounds like there's an elephant in the background.

Matt:

Just the ambient sound?

Rachel:

I think it's supposed to be distorted screaming, but it's like

Matt:

so we just relistened to it. Yeah. And it's like these long, like, organ, like, church organ chords. Like,

Rachel:

wow. Yeah.

Matt:

Wow. And then it's like every other of these long cords that get held for, like, I don't know, 20 seconds. You hear

Rachel:

It sounds like an elephant.

Matt:

And it sounds like an elephant.

Rachel:

And once you hear it, you can't unhear it. You can't You can't.

Matt:

Mister Mullen. Fred. Fred. What what was going on?

Rachel:

What? You know, I think it's supposed to be distorted screaming. Yeah. I think that's what it's supposed to be. And, VanderWaal is like I mean, she was troubled.

Rachel:

She died. I don't know what to tell you. And Nick's like, I'm not sure if it was a suicide. We're like, we're not even sure if it was a suicide. And the priest goes, I'm not sure you ever will.

Rachel:

Well, what? Know if it's a suicide? Know what?

Matt:

Will not be sure. I think I think it's technically grammatically correct.

Rachel:

Yeah. But It just it plays out weird dialogue wise.

Matt:

Yes. It doesn't feel like realist plausible dialogue. Yeah. Yeah.

Rachel:

But the priest does notice that Nick is inching towards this door. He's like, oh, you wanna know what's through that door? You can go through that door. So he opens the sus door.

Matt:

You wanna see something cool?

Rachel:

You wanna see like, I got like, he wants to feel I was busy doing. And there's a guy strapped to the table, and he's like, this is me working. I'm at work right now. And the room is full of crosses, and so Nick is, of course, like, nope.

Matt:

Nick sees somebody strapped to a table and is like, I'm totally familiar.

Rachel:

Oh, it's an exorcism. Oh.

Matt:

Oh, I I was thinking more like kinky

Rachel:

sex thing. I am not because we have plenty of opportunity to discuss kinky sex in about, oh, 10 minutes. So the the priest walks in and he goes, who am I talking to you? Am I talking to? Am I talking to Michael?

Rachel:

And the guy's like, it's not Michael.

Nick:

Michael's not here. Michael's not here right now.

Rachel:

Please leave a message at the.

Matt:

Elephants. Please leave a message after the elephants.

Rachel:

Vanderwall starts speaking in Latin and spouting Bible quotes, and Nick's in the corner like, so all Natalie needed

Matt:

to do

Matt:

Garrett is doing a great job appearing to be very uncomfortable while this guy is exercising a demon.

Rachel:

All Natalie needed to do to find out whether or not Nick was a vampire was look over during this conversation because he's

Matt:

like Tracy?

Rachel:

Oh, yeah. Sorry, Tracy. Natalie already knows. Oh, but Tracy's Tracy just needed to look over because Nick is like, oh, ah, e, ah,

Matt:

ah, oh.

Rachel:

It's like

Matt:

locked in.

Rachel:

It's like the death scene where Paul Reubens is dying in Buffy the Vampire Slayer when they

Matt:

he was happening in the background for so long.

Rachel:

He was allowed to adlib that. That's why it's like that. They were like, no. However you wanna fucking do it because he gets staked, and then he's like, oh, ah, ah, ah, It's the best scene, honestly. Yeah.

Rachel:

Gregor Hower is a vampire. Paul Reubens as a vampire who dies dramatically. And so he ends up commanding the devil out of Michael, and there's enough reverb in Michael's voice when this happens that it, like, he vomits the demon out. It resonates over the room to Nick, and Nick is like, whoo. He, like, throws his head back, and his eyes go green.

Matt:

You are.

Rachel:

I'm sure he's fine, though. Right? I guess it's gonna be fine. That can't be that can't be bad because Michael's fine now.

Matt:

Right. He's just left. He's just reacting to the violent release of energy from the exorcism.

Rachel:

There's an episode of Angel where they have this kid, I think, that's possessed with the demon. And so they cast the demon out, and they have to get a box to keep the demon because if they cast it out without having another vessel for it to go in, it'll be free, and it'll be able to hurt people.

Matt:

I was actually thinking about something like that when this happened.

Rachel:

Well, the demon comes up.

Matt:

The guy have something to trap it or whatever?

Rachel:

Well, it breaks the box. And she's and Gordy Lee is like, shit. Because she was supposed to get one made by blind Tibetan monks, and instead, she got one that was done by, like, mute nuns. She's like, it's not the same. And so they leave.

Rachel:

They leave after that. They're like, okay. Cool. Thanks for the alibi. Strange man.

Rachel:

I mean, he didn't do anything illegal, but everybody was there consensually, so whatever. So they leave, and Tracy's like, it's all set.

Matt:

Demon was not there consensually.

Rachel:

Well, I guess

Matt:

The demons don't have rights. Because they don't have an independent physical

Rachel:

They have not been proven to exist. That's why they don't have rights. So Tracy is like, I think it's all smoke and mirrors. You know, pay no attention to that man behind the curtain, and Nick does not get the reference. He goes, what?

Rachel:

And she's like, you know, wizard of Oz. And for once ever, Tracy is not on board with these supernatural shenanigans. She's like, I don't buy it. I buy vampires. I buy every other supernatural thing we've encountered up until now.

Rachel:

I buy that you got over amnesia after a week's vacation, but I don't

Matt:

I buy that you got over a gaping hole in your head.

Rachel:

Yeah. A gunshot wound to the head, but demons fucking step too far. And Nick, of course, is possessed at this point because he's driving down the road, and he sees a guy in a priest outfit, and he swerves around it. And Tracy goes, Nick, are you okay? And he's like, yeah.

Rachel:

I thought there was a cat.

Matt:

Nick?

Rachel:

Nick, are you okay? What's the matter?

Nick:

Nothing. I thought there was a cat.

Rachel:

And it also just so happens that there's a robbery at this store right at this moment. And so this guy comes out holding a woman hostage, and Nick hypnotizes the guy into letting her go. And he's continuing to hypnotize him, and then he's like, put the gun

Matt:

down. His hypnotized voice changes. So okay.

Matt:

I can

Rachel:

always tell it's gonna be good when you crack yourself up before you've even said it.

Matt:

It's more the obscurity of the reference.

Rachel:

Oh, thank god.

Matt:

Okay. So in the wheel of time

Rachel:

Wheel of time isn't obscure anymore, honey.

Matt:

I guess you're right. Okay. In the later books, in the Wheel of Time

Rachel:

Those are, though.

Matt:

So there's the Aes Sedai, and there's the 7 groups clicks the 7 clicks of the Aes Sedai, and they're all different colors.

Rachel:

There's just colors. Yeah.

Matt:

Yeah. The Aja's. Yeah. And there's this, like, mythical evil black aja.

Rachel:

Yeah.

Matt:

And, they they have this there's this thing that they can the way they use their magic, where they can make it invisible to other people, other magic users.

Rachel:

The weave.

Matt:

Yes. They can invert the weave and make it invisible to other practitioners. And so, they're like, how could I how could there be, like, black Aja? We have to swear the 3 oaths, while holding this ancient artifact, and the words that you speak out loud, like, are magically binding and have to be truthful. Yeah.

Matt:

The oath rod. Yeah. I'm Okay. I'm adding context and generalization

Rachel:

Thank you.

Matt:

For people who are not familiar. And they're, like, all every single Aes Sedai has gone through this very public ceremony for, for swearing their oaths. So how would a, black Aja sister be able to, like, swear the same three oaths that all of us swear, like, basically don't hurt people, don't kill people, don't make weapons, something like that.

Rachel:

Yeah.

Matt:

And, oh, and never tell a lie. How would they be able to swear those oaths publicly but then not be constrained by them later

Rachel:

Yeah.

Matt:

After we find out that you can invert the weave of the a spell and make it invisible to the other practitioners, because everybody if you, like, do magic, you can see the the lines of the different, like, colors of magic, whatever. Yeah. It's all very visible to other people who can do the same magic. So the they think they learn, oh, you can, like, invert the weave and then it's only the lines of, like, magic are only visible to the person doing the magic, and they learn, figure out, deduce that during the, like, public ceremony where they swear their oaths, what the Black Aja sisters are doing is they have this spell wrapped around their head, and the leaves are inverted, so it's invisible to everybody else. But they speak like the black aja oaths, And when it goes through the spell that's the bubble around their head, it comes out as

Rachel:

the standard of oaths. Yeah.

Matt:

So they personally are speaking truthful statements that they are bound to later, but everybody else hears the standard 3 o's. So that's what I was thinking about when Nick is hypnotizing this guy and telling him to put the gun down and put your hands up. Nick is hearing himself say, put the gun down Yeah. And put your hands up. But the what the guy is actually hearing, what the demon is actually saying through Nick is, like, put the gun in your mouth and pull the trigger.

Rachel:

Yeah. And he goes, alright. I'll do it. Yeah. And ends up killing him.

Matt:

So

Rachel:

In front of Tracy and Nick.

Matt:

Long explanation of

Rachel:

Yes. Thank you.

Matt:

Steady obscure.

Rachel:

Listen, honey. To create a blueberry pie from scratch, one must first create the universe. So Reese says it's not surprising. They go back, and they're like, I don't know what happened. This guy just killed himself in front of us.

Rachel:

And Reese is like, you don't need counseling. And, I mean, 3rd time lucky is what he says. He goes, 3rd time lucky? Thank you, Reese.

Matt:

Reese needs some, like, sensitivity mental health training.

Rachel:

Yeah. I I don't know. They need it. It's the nineties. That doesn't exist.

Rachel:

They don't have

Matt:

that. It does exist. Yeah. But only in a performative way for sexual harassment.

Rachel:

Yeah. He goes, all anyone cares about is that you saved that woman. Didn't we have a whole episode where we talked about how excess violence was not great? I'm pretty sure we had an episode about that, but it's cool. They saved that woman.

Rachel:

That's all that matters. And, Natalie, what oh my god. Why am I getting everybody's name wrong? It must be because there's a demon. Because Tracy goes first of all, Reese is sick.

Rachel:

Half the precinct is sick. And Tracy's like, oh, have you guys not found that weird smell in the building? And Reese is like, no. We think there's a sewer link somewhere.

Matt:

To the to the demonic energies

Nick:

Apparently.

Matt:

Because of her inner conflict.

Rachel:

Well, the demon didn't pick her, did it? And so Nick goes to the desk, and he, like, he starts shaking, and he grabs his desk. And Tracy comes over, and she's like, Nick, Nick, are you okay? And then a guy gets electrocuted on a ladder right next to him.

Matt:

My first reaction to that was, oh, they reused that gimmick.

Rachel:

Yeah. From faithful followers. Yeah. Faithful followers. So Nick goes home.

Rachel:

He's like, you know what? Shit's weird. I think I'm just gonna go back to my house.

Matt:

The vibes are off.

Rachel:

The vibes are not immaculate. I'm going back to my house. So Nick goes home, and he, like, faint walks over to the fridge to chug some blood. And then, Matt was like, oh, the camera is angled. The camera tilted.

Rachel:

So you know shit's about to go down, and he's drinking his blood. And then he's like, oh, no. And he runs over to the sink, and the sink starts backing up. And then he, like, looks up, and his eyes start to glow like a weird, ugly dream.

Matt:

Deal if you're on, like, the 6th floor of a warehouse building, and your drain is backing up. Yeah. That's a problem.

Rachel:

That's a problem. And then he drops his bottle of blood and it splashes all over the floor. And then he walks over, and all of the piano wires in his piano are broken. And then somebody, like, screams and throws a bottle at him, And he ends up, like, running at the camera, and then we get launched into the flashback all at the same time.

Matt:

Where we see the motorcycle is back.

Rachel:

When he runs, when he flees the apartment. This is the part where he just runs at the camera, and we, like, whoosh into a flashback. And it gave me there was that one episode that just had stellar transitions. Like, every time we transitioned to the flashback.

Matt:

That was directed by Gar?

Rachel:

Was that the one that was directed by Gere? But every time we went into a flashback, it was like, shit. That was a great transition.

Matt:

Because I said that it must have been, like, a filming intern. I'm like Yeah. Play around with it.

Rachel:

Yeah. Can we just have him look after

Nick:

the last step?

Matt:

We've never seen before.

Rachel:

Let's do some cool shit. Well, that this felt like cool shit, and it's Lacroix grilling the other soulmate about god. I think his name is Sancho.

Matt:

Yes. The remaining guy is Sancho. Yeah. The Spanish Spanish guy.

Rachel:

And the guy is like, I don't know. It's not for me to question God. And Laquag goes, of course, you can't ask because then you might actually get an answer.

Quote:

It is not for me

Nick:

to question. Of course not. Because once the question is asked, it must be answered.

Matt:

Yeah. Once the question is asked, then the answer will come.

Rachel:

So the guy gets a little pissed off. He's like, well, you serve the devil, and Lacroix goes, I serve no one. And so Sancho fires back, then you are without purpose. And LaCroix is like, that maybe, but at least I don't lie to myself. It's like, I don't I don't subscribe to hustle culture.

Matt:

I would say Lacroix deludes himself, deceives himself, lies to himself Yeah. About one thing, that Nick will eventually be

Nick:

his friend.

Rachel:

Say about his chances of getting with Nick because that's about the one thing that he's like, I'm pretty sure if I keep banging my head against this wall, I will eventually it will eventually develop a hole.

Matt:

It's a do this. It's a classic you're too close to the problem problem.

Rachel:

Yeah. Well, Nick steps away from Lacroix and goes to stand next to Sancho, and Sancho, like, flinches away. And Nick goes, you you don't have anything to fear for me. And Sancho's like, oh, yeah. The guy who can't walk in the sun can't go near the crosses, and is repelled by lamb's blood.

Rachel:

Yeah. I'm real safe with you.

Nick:

You have nothing to fear for me. You?

Quote:

You cannot walk in the daylight. The lamb's blood and crosses repel you. Tell me you are not an angel of the devil.

Nick:

Yes, Nicholas. Do tell.

Rachel:

Nick said he's like, what manner of devil are you or whatever? And LaCroix goes, oh, yeah. I wanna hear this explanation. Do tell, Nicholas.

Matt:

I'm just imagining Nick's response as something like, god. It's not my fault I have allergies.

Rachel:

Sunlight, religiously charged objects, garlic, and commitment. We know this. It is canon. Okay? I have a hat and everything.

Rachel:

This is garlic and commitment on it.

Matt:

I'm allergic. It's not my fault. Thank you, Meg.

Rachel:

So that was our Patreon gift. Our Patreon, our first and most devoted of all patrons, who now has a podcast called Garrett can get it that you can listen to, sent me a hat that says garlic and commitment on it. On the episode, we were like, garlic and commitment. These are his known allergies. So the the inquisitors show up, and they're like, come on, Sancho.

Rachel:

It's time to go murderize you. And Sancho's like, no. I am a devoted Christian, and they're

Matt:

like has fallen in love with this man.

Rachel:

He has. I mean, he's

Matt:

like Nick. Nick has fallen in love with this man.

Rachel:

Yes. Thank you. Don't we know that they're 2 separate people. We just make jokes about it.

Matt:

Are they, though?

Rachel:

Not in this episode. They're not. So Nick

Matt:

But in in about 5 minutes Yeah. Gary will be unleashed.

Rachel:

Unleashed? But Nick is like, I'm the devil. And I tried to get this guy to join me, and he refused to join me. And Lacroix watches Nick

Matt:

His faith.

Rachel:

No. No. No. No. The best part of this scene is Lacroix watches Nick vamp out, and then he goes, oh, really, Nick?

Rachel:

Such crass showmanship. Like

Matt:

Well, even Nick

Rachel:

How how Pesay

Matt:

Nick is telling the inquisitors that the guy's faith stopped him from joining the them

Rachel:

in the desert. You should probably let him go, and they're like, hell, yeah. We got some better doubles right here.

Matt:

They immediately say, like, okay. You can go.

Rachel:

Yeah.

Matt:

Bye bye.

Rachel:

Bye. You go. And so they pour oil on the floor and light it on fire.

Matt:

Have a bucket outside the door.

Rachel:

They're like, get fire and get fire and oil. And they're like, cool. I got it right here. So they just pour oil on the floor, light it on fire. And it's so traumatizing.

Rachel:

It sends Nick back to the present.

Matt:

Out of the flashback.

Rachel:

And this is when he flees and the motorcycle is over by the door, which we haven't seen the motorcycle in, like, a season and a half. So welcome back, motorcycle. And he goes directly to the Raven. Like, this is this is the best possible you know what? I think he's going there for help.

Rachel:

I think he's going there to find LaCroix to get help. But he goes in, and then he freaks out a little. And we do this top down thing where he, like, tips his head back and vamps out, which is pretty cool. And then this lady walks up to him.

Matt:

She's totally into Nick.

Rachel:

Well, she goes, you look like you could use a drink. Care to join me? And Nick is like, oh, just attacks her face. Sensually attacks her face. Sensually, of course.

Rachel:

He attacks her face sensually. Sexually, all

Matt:

I might say. But she's digging it.

Rachel:

And she goes, is that a yes? And I don't think even think he answers. It's just like He

Matt:

just growls.

Rachel:

Well, yeah, it is. So they go to this back room, which I'm pretty sure is explicitly there for making out slash sex in.

Matt:

Right. There's comfy places to lay. Yeah. There's literally a bed. Right?

Rachel:

No. I think there's couches.

Matt:

Okay.

Rachel:

It's the sex lounge. There's multiple options. And he

Nick:

is I bet there's

Matt:

even anchor points in the wall for kinky sex.

Rachel:

120% committed to making out with this woman. There is, tits to face. There is

Matt:

He's just

Rachel:

He licks her.

Matt:

Mouth

Matt:

it. He's just mouthing her chin.

Rachel:

Oh my god.

Matt:

Like her whole chin all the way up to her cheek.

Rachel:

This is another scene I do not recommend listening to with really good headphones because he goes at it so fucking hard. There is so much slurping sounds. At one point, he literally makes like a it's like a suction pop sound with his mouth. Like, he was no. Like, you know, when you open mouth, like like, suction pop on somebody?

Rachel:

Yeah. He'd we do because he's probably breathing in while trying to eat her chest. I don't know what is happening. A lot is happening. There is licking.

Rachel:

There is slurping. It is you know, actually, this scene, I know this scene, even though I haven't watched this episode very often because this scene shows up in Kristen's videos a lot.

Matt:

Oh. Yeah.

Rachel:

I mean, for good reason. Jeanette, honestly. Yeah. If this were Jeanette oh my god. Can you fucking imagine if we got this scene with Jeanette?

Rachel:

If he got to show up at the Raven possessed, and he was like, I'm pretty sure we could should bang. She'd be like, hell fucking yes.

Matt:

I had a room built built specifically for that.

Rachel:

Yeah. Or as you pointed out, it's entirely possible that Lacroix hires attractive women specifically with the purpose of eventually seducing Nick?

Matt:

Oh, yeah. So here's what I told Rachel. There's a subset of employees of the Raven that upon being hired are told, okay, this man. See this man in this picture here, he comes here every once in a while. Whoever gets him to go in the back room with you while making out whatever Yep.

Matt:

Gets a bonus.

Rachel:

Gets a fucking bonus. If he bangs you

Matt:

Extra bonus for every piece of clothing removed, plus double the bonus if he bites you.

Rachel:

I like to think that this arrangement also applies to beefcake booty short.

Matt:

Oh, absolutely. Yeah.

Rachel:

Yeah. Literally.

Matt:

The beefcake booty short was was the first.

Rachel:

Yeah. Yeah. And then

Matt:

He's the team lead.

Rachel:

Lacquatch shows up. Seduce Nicholas. The seduce team, seduce Nicholas.

Matt:

Yes.

Rachel:

Well, LaCroix shows up. He is they are on the couch. Nick is hard at this. He's going hard at this. And so he's, like, choking this woman.

Rachel:

I mean, a lot is happening, and Nick, like, is making out. And then Lacroix pops up in the background because Lacroix likes to watch, and I will die on this hill. Because in his little mental mind power link with Nick, he was like, oh, shit. Nick's about to get it on, and he was like, oh.

Matt:

I'm not missing this.

Rachel:

I'll be over. And so he runs over, and he's like, what a pleasant surprise to see you like this. Nick does go a little hard, and the woman ends up getting scared and running off. And Lacroix is like, my boy, you have finally come to your senses.

Matt:

I think she's not so much scared as now that Lacroix is there, that's the end of bonus territory.

Rachel:

Well, he also that, but he was, like, choking. Maybe there he was being really aggressive.

Matt:

Maybe there's a number, another bonus multiplier if Nick stays in it while Lacroix watches.

Rachel:

Entirely possible. But I love Lacoste reaction to this. He's like, first of all, bravo. Good choice. 2nd of all, maybe next time, we just be a little more discreet because Nick goes, you have to help me, I need help.

Rachel:

And LaCroix is like, nah. It looked like you were doing fine. I don't have any real notes, and I have watched you do this, like, a bunch. So I'm pretty sure you were right on track, but maybe next time we just, you know, maybe we don't make out and vamp out in the main room, and then we just wait till we come back here. You know?

Rachel:

And thank you for choosing another vampire. Excellent decision. So I don't have to worry about cleanup. Yeah. And Nick is like, no.

Rachel:

You don't understand. I was at an exorcism, and this is the part I fucking love. It is a throwaway moment, except it's not. Because he goes, I was at at an I was at an exorcism. It wasn't mine.

Matt:

I did love that line. I was in Lacroix. I was at an exorcism. It wasn't mine. Which and something happened.

Rachel:

Which means Nick has the presence of mind, the self awareness to realize that Lacroix is going to immediately assume that this exorcism was for him. I mean, he already kind of attended an exorcism this season in black wing when she took his evil.

Matt:

Oh, yes.

Rachel:

Yeah. Yeah. So I just I fucking love that he's like, I was at an exorcism. It wasn't mine, but something happened, and I think the demon went into me. And LaCroix is like, fucking what, Nick?

Rachel:

Jesus Jesus h Christ, who I don't believe in, by the way, because I very nearly predate him.

Matt:

I'm just fluent in English and its idioms.

Rachel:

There is absolutely no way that that is true. I don't why are you even why are you harshing my mellow right now? Dude, I thought we were about to get it on. I have not watched you had sex, and I can't even tell you how long. I was so excited.

Rachel:

And now this is where we're at. This is terrible. I am absolutely losing my heart on right now. And Nick is like, you don't understand. You have to take me to the Exorcist.

Rachel:

I need your help. And Laquaza is like, I'm not taking you fucking anywhere. Look me in the eye, Nick. I'm not taking you fucking anywhere. And then

Matt:

Transition to the exercise.

Rachel:

Wait. Then Nick tries to choke LaCroix for a minute. He's like, you will take me. And he likes and then he pauses, and he's like, you please help me. And look, why can't say no to that face.

Rachel:

He makes the face. He's like, please, please, LaCroix, could you take me to the Exorcist? And LaCroix is like, fucking fine.

Nick:

Please help me in the claw. Please.

Matt:

So so my first thought was, is there a vampire exorcist? Like No. Is there another exorcist that's, like, aware of the vampire world that Lacroix would know about? But, no, they just mean Vanderwaal.

Rachel:

Vanderwaal. Yep. So since Nick made the compelling argument of, sad eyes, it was like, alright. Fucking fine. So he takes him to VanderWaals, and VanderWaals is like, oh, okay.

Rachel:

Yeah. Secondary infection. Yeah. That can happen. It must have had some he must have had an open wound.

Rachel:

That's how that that's how the bacteria the evil bacteria usually spreads. You must have some inner turmoil to open the door. And Lacroix is like, I don't I don't fucking care. Can you just do whatever you need to do to get this done? And he goes, you don't believe me, do you?

Rachel:

And, like, while literally is like, I actually don't give even a small amount of shit, but I am here for Nicholas. And so he looks over at Laquette Nicholas. And Nick does this, like

Matt:

so this is the start of the really uncomfortable

Rachel:

scene. It's like and then he goes, are you Nicholas? And Nick goes, yes. He's real, real convincing and vendor go vendor wall goes, why don't I believe you? Why could they give a couple of reasons?

Rachel:

And this is when we start using the flashback and the present time, like, real fast, like, flip, flip, flip, flip, flip. Because we go back to the flashback, and they're being driven back by the fire. And then all of a sudden, we're back in the present, and Nick is all, I'm evil. I'm the son of Billiel.

Nick:

I'm the son of Billiel.

Rachel:

And Vanderweel's like, oh, shit. The evil of him is very powerful. I need you to help. And he looks back at Laquan. Laquan's like, hard pass.

Rachel:

He goes, well, you came here like you're here. Are you wait a minute. Are you the one responsible for his turmoil?

Matt:

Leclerc is a 100% responsible for Nick's turmoil.

Rachel:

Matt goes actually, Matt, we're watching it. Matt goes, he is a 1000% responsible for Matt's for Nick's turmoil. 1000%. Every drop of turmoil has LaCroix's like, signature on it. He is the ultimate troll.

Rachel:

He has been trolling Nick. He has been trolling Nick for 800 years. Every piece of turmoil is his, And Lacroix is like, can you just fucking help him? Like, don't look at me like that. Jesus.

Rachel:

Okay? Everybody needs a hobby. And the guy's like, I need your help. I can't do this alone. And Laquale looks over at the cross, and he does this like, I can't.

Rachel:

Like, I would love to help you. I am physic like like, that small amount of weakness. You know how much that must rankle? Okay. To continue our Star Wars analogy from beforehand, when he became a vampire, the cross was not a prevalent symbol, which means at a certain point in his life, they started showing up, and they just hurt for no fucking reason.

Rachel:

Right. It would literally be like all

Matt:

of a sudden there when Star Wars the story came out. Yeah. And then And

Rachel:

then you see a rebel symbol slump one day, and it fucking burns you. And you're like, shit. What? The what? That is not what?

Rachel:

And then all of a sudden, people are wearing it on chains around their neck and getting tattoos of it and shit. And you're like, oh my god. It's everywhere, and it hurts, and I don't know why. Tattoos of it and shit, and you're like, oh my god. It's everywhere, and it hurts, and I don't know why.

Rachel:

And you can tell he is like, he didn't like it.

Matt:

Oh, yeah. It it gets under his skin.

Rachel:

Yeah. He's like, I can't. And then VanderWaal's like, oh, come on. Just help him. You can do it.

Rachel:

And this is when Gare vamps out. I'm sorry. Nick vamps out. Nick is like, he goes, Nick is already lost is what he says. He's like, we're losing him.

Rachel:

And Nick is like, ah, I'm already lost. Look at my teeth. And then he's like, I belong to Belial now or, you know, Nick belongs to me, but I'm his I'm his boss now. And Lacroix is like, oh, hell no. Oh, fucking no.

Rachel:

I have not put in the work for you to show up 24 hours ago and feel like you already own this dude when I have been working for 800 years to get him on my side. There is absolutely no way I am letting him have it, and so he gets extremely triggered. He, like, leans forward, and he's like, no. He is mine. He is my creation.

Rachel:

I fucking own him. And Vanderwaal's like, okay. Cool. So you're, like, both like this? And the clause like, yes.

Rachel:

Yes. We're both like this. And VanderWaals goes, well, of course you don't want him to believe, then you'd have to admit that the devil is real. And Claude's like, I don't fucking care if the devil is real. And he actually gets 2 crosses and he's gonna he puts 1 at Nick's feet and then he's walking around to put 1 by Nick's head and Lacroix like ducks really fast out of the way of the cross, and VanderWaal goes, oh, excuse me.

Matt:

And then he leans over Nick. VanderWaals just plays it chill.

Rachel:

He's like, alright. I'm gonna roll with this.

Matt:

He's a professional.

Rachel:

He's profesh. Okay. And then until he leans forward and Nick just breaks his chains and starts choking with him, and Lacroix is like, drop it.

Matt:

Drop it. No. Bad boy. Put it down.

Rachel:

Bad boy. Drop it. And then he starts laughing. Nick lets him go, but then he's laughing, and he's like, you have no power over me. Well, you let him go.

Rachel:

So kinda think you do. And then we get, like, uh-oh. Natalie's about to be involved. Because Natalie shows up at Nick's house, and she's like, Nick, are you

Matt:

And she sees the mess.

Rachel:

Matt was like,

Matt:

oh, my wife's been mad.

Rachel:

When the glass

Matt:

when the glass bottles were flying around, I was like, oh, no. What will the wife say? And then Natalie showed up, and I was like, oh, look what life the wife's gonna say.

Rachel:

Well, Natalie at least is worried. She's like, oh, no. This is out of character. And we go back to the exorcism, which is still going on. It's like 45 minutes of a 48 minute episode.

Rachel:

Stupid. That and making out. That's this whole episode. But VanderWaal asks, like, why this one? Why did you choose Nick?

Rachel:

And so Belial, I guess, is in his literal inner demon. It's like, de Brabant has had has been so many people, and all of them murderers. They're all inside here, held back by his conscience. He's got real potential, and I'm gonna develop it. Like we're going to, we're going to do it's got the boss.

Rachel:

We I'm going to got the boss, this dude, and we're, we're going to take over the world together. And then Natalie has called Tracy, meanwhile. Everything's happening really fast, which is nice because it keeps the pace moving really fast, and it makes this end feel really frantic. So we're really hopping, and they must not have had enough flashback to do all of the hops, and that's why we get Natalie. Because Tracy calls Natalie, and Tracy's like, I don't know where he is.

Rachel:

Maybe he stopped at the drugstore on the way home. He wasn't looking great. He looked really pale. Or as Reese says, I've never seen anyone look that pale. And Natalie is like, yeah.

Rachel:

Maybe he stopped at the drugstore knowing full fucking well Nick has never been in a drugstore in his life.

Matt:

Except to buy flowers.

Rachel:

Oh, and with affection covers.

Matt:

Affection.

Rachel:

Yeah. And Tracy's like, well, you know, we had a really complicated day, but it's a lot to talk about on the phone. So I don't think I'm gonna get into it. And Natalie goes, give me the highlights of what happened. And then we go back to the

Matt:

She says, oh, sorry. Let me summarize that for you.

Rachel:

So we go back to the exorcism because VanderWaal is actually gonna start he's done with the interrogation portion of the exorcism, and we're on to the actual exorcism. And we this is when we do the fish eye lens on Gare's face, and he's, like, screaming at the camera. And we go immediately back into a flashback of Lacroix and Nick, And they end up hot like, holding onto each other and hopping over the fire. And then because, of course, they've gotten backed into the corner with the oil and fire. And then we come back, and Belial's like, I have revived the vampire's taste for death.

Rachel:

I will be with him forever. We are gonna do great things together. And then we go back to the flashback because we're flip, flip, flip really fast here. And, this I really like this scene. I'm gonna summarize the flashback so we don't have to keep going back and forth.

Rachel:

But what happens right up until the, like, dramatic conclusion, which kind of gives us our this is how love love conquers all. That's how Nick was able to defeat the defeat the the demon. But the thing I like about this flashback, this moment right here, is they end up jumping over the fire, but there's still, like, a fire on one side, priest with cross on the other side. The sun is still up because it's been day for 28 hours. A lot has happened.

Rachel:

And they're, like, hunched down together, and Nick reaches out and takes Lacroix's hand.

Matt:

An intimate moment.

Rachel:

Did you notice that?

Matt:

I did not.

Rachel:

And it's a very, like, I think we could actually be friends if you would quit being such an asshole. They are the only people on this raft traveling through eternity together, and it sucks. It's like in I just read war of the world, and there's a scene where he's with there's a whole section where the narrator is with this guy named the curate, and he says it's just unfortunate because our personalities were extremely incompatible. So they're stuck together. They work together.

Rachel:

They do stuff together, but they're just not close enough in temperament to be able to be friends. But I think Lacroix and Nick could be friends. They're just stuck. Lacroix can't meet anyone in the middle. He flat out fucking refuses, And Nick doesn't know how to get to Lacroix without becoming the type of person that he doesn't wanna be.

Rachel:

And yet, when they're in this moment where they're about to die, Nick reaches out and takes LaCroix's hand. It was just a really sweet moment, and I always like this moment. That's why I like this flashback even though this whole section is difficult to take. And Laquon is actually holding Nick down at this point in the present time, and he's like, fight, Nicholas. And the demon looks up at LaCroix, and he's like, you're one of us, LaCroix.

Rachel:

You're a demon just like us, and, look, Lacroix is not receiving this. You can't insult Lacroix by being like, you're evil. He's like, fucking noted. Thanks. Already knew that.

Rachel:

Is that news? Oh, I'm sorry.

Matt:

That's an understatement.

Rachel:

Yeah. You don't know that fucking half of it. When he yells at Nick, he goes and this must hurt him on, like, a a soul level because he goes, there is good in you, Nicholas.

Matt:

This is how desperate Lacroix is.

Rachel:

There is god in you. Use it.

Nick:

You were one of us. He hoped for long trace.

Rachel:

Listen to me, Nicholas. You must fight this team.

Nick:

There is goodness in you.

Rachel:

There is God in you, sir. In the nominated

Matt:

Do you

Rachel:

know what that cost him to be like, you are actually a really good guy? He must have thrown up a little on his mouth. There is good in you, Nick. Use it. And then we come back, and VanderWaal is like, okay.

Rachel:

Well, I cast thee out. I'm done. Like, LaCroix got you pinned. I've said all the Latin. I've sprayed you with whatever.

Rachel:

I cast the out right at the moment that Natalie arrives because Natalie's like, oh, you went to Vanderwalls? Cool. I'm a go right over there. So she comes over, and Nick launches out of bed and, like, grabs her. And there's a lot of hissing and growling.

Rachel:

And, like, is he gonna bite her? Is he not going to bite her? Because he is at war with himself, and he ends up throwing himself away from her. And then he sits up with a normal face. Like

Matt:

This is just like the Duncan Idaho scene. To bring back children.

Rachel:

Children of doom? Okay. Where he's he's been triggered with

Matt:

his He's the Duncan Gola Duncan Idaho zombie Yeah. That doesn't have access to original Duncan's memories and the compulsion to kill Paul. And then he's in the act of stabbing Paul in the back, and, originally, Duncan comes back.

Rachel:

Yeah. Now was it the love of Natalie or the love of Lacroix that brought Nick back?

Matt:

Oh, Natalie. Because Lacroix was, like, in his face, and he was thrashing. But then as soon as he gets face to face with Natalie, he throws himself away and regains control.

Rachel:

But would he have been able to do it if Lacroix had not admitted that there was good in Nick?

Matt:

Probably not. He needed he needed both sides.

Rachel:

Yeah. He needed all of his found family slash made family slash fucking let you go.

Matt:

How much of a Travis tragedy? Sacrifice? Yes. He's aware of how bad things must be if Lacroix is willing to call out to the good in him. So that's the thing he's running away from.

Matt:

And then there's Natalie Yeah. Which he's ostensibly pursuing.

Rachel:

Yeah. In love with.

Matt:

And so he he has he has a thing he's running away from. He has a thing he's running towards, and having both of those things is, like, double motivation. Yeah. Yeah. And he just barely makes it out.

Rachel:

I do feel for Natalie's, oh my god, Nick. What happened? Because she walked in. He ran over, grabbed her face, almost bit her, and she's like, oh god. No, Nick.

Rachel:

Don't do it. And then he flops back on the table, sits up, and she's like, oh my god, Nick. Are you okay? Girl, he just grabbed your face. Take a minute.

Rachel:

Make sure he's not gonna do that again. Don't run over there.

Matt:

Those things can come back out real quick.

Rachel:

Yeah. Well, van der Waal goes, for the devil to be driven out, you had to have believed that God had not abandoned you. Okay. I'm pretty sure God specifically told him he abandoned him in the near death episode. He was like, see your soul right there, the one infested with maggots?

Rachel:

Yeah. That's all on you. Do you really think that you can do enough good to make up for all the evil you've done? I don't fucking think so. So we had a whole episode where they were like, you damned.

Rachel:

So you might as well stay alive because

Matt:

And your soul is damned.

Rachel:

Yeah. Oh, but there it got better.

Matt:

It got a

Rachel:

little bit better.

Matt:

There's a chance. Yeah. So you're saying

Rachel:

there's a chance? There's a chance. And Vanderwall tries to have a heart to heart with Lacroix. He's like, that was a really sweet thing you said to your friend. And Lacroix is like Lacroix literally looks at a bump bump.

Rachel:

This never happened. But we get the conclusion of the flashback, which the conclusion of the so Lacroix saying there is good in you, him being able to not kill Natalie, and then 3 things that all kind of culminate into him being able to beat the devil beat the devil out of himself. So he goes back to the flat the flashback, and it's right on the moment when they're about to die. They're about to be burned to death, and something happens. Somebody comes up behind the priest and knocks them out.

Rachel:

And so they actually Sancho, the guy that they got out earlier, came back and rescued them even though he knew they were not human.

Nick:

Mhmm.

Rachel:

And Sancho was like, I don't know what you are, but you did a good thing by getting me out, so you have to be good. And was like, that doesn't make any fucking sense, and it's wildly inaccurate. The only So we go back. We're done. We wrap all that up.

Rachel:

We get our happy conclusion to the flashback where it's like, Nick realized that there are people out there who could know what he was and not see him as the devil and that he could resist killing Natalie and that Lacroix does know that he is fundamentally a good guy. He just can't admit it because he would have to admit that that means good and evil exists and that he is on one end of those spectrums, and it's not the one that Nick is on. So Nick and Natalie are back at his apartment because Nick took the day off, and so she stops in on her way to work. And she's like, do you want me to stay? Like, we could watch popcorn.

Rachel:

I could put on my shirt. We could do some season one things. And he's like, no. I don't I want you to go. And she goes, you know, you beat the devil.

Rachel:

That's not bad for a day's work. And he says

Matt:

Hold on. Hold on. Did he beat the devil? Or did she beat the devil out of it?

Rachel:

That's what I can look at. We just said Bob said it. Too soon. It's too soon after night in question. Okay?

Matt:

Oh, no. No. No. I I was just going for a Bob Ross quote.

Rachel:

Or as I said, don't be clumped, Chubb. Have some cum.

Matt:

One of

Rachel:

my better lines. Alright. So join the Patreon. You'll know exactly what I'm talking about, cause you'll get to be in the discord and you'll get to chat with me and know just how unhinged I actually am. So Nick says you can't imagine what it's like.

Rachel:

You can't imagine what it's like to be actually possessed by the devil. Natalie goes, maybe not, but we all have our demons. And this is another feeling, like, consistency thing that we have with Natalie that is always consistent, Like, when Tracy was like, I have an uncle who's going to die imminently because of heart disease. And Tracy goes, I know what you mean. I have elective surgery on my knee that I haven't done for about a year, but I think I'm gonna get it done soon.

Rachel:

These two things are equal. These two things are not equal. But in Natalie's mind, these two things are equal. So Natalie is Natalie is like, I know you were possessed by an actual demon. You almost had sex with another vampire woman.

Rachel:

You almost killed a priest. You almost killed me. But, hey. We all all lives are equal. All lives matter.

Rachel:

And Nick is like, fucking no. You have no idea what I'm talking about, and he vamps out. He doesn't actually get fangs. He just changes his eyes. And he turns back to her, and she's like, oh, flashback.

Rachel:

She goes, don't do that. Like, don't do that to me. And, he admits that his thirst is back.

Matt:

Right. He's testing his hunger.

Rachel:

He's testing himself. He's like, I think what happened set us back. I think it set us back.

Matt:

What he said first, he says, it set me back. And then he says, it set us back, which is a pretty loaded statement to make

Rachel:

Yeah.

Matt:

To the woman you just maybe

Rachel:

Maybe banged?

Matt:

Maybe banged.

Rachel:

Yeah. And she's like, what do you mean? He goes, I haven't felt thirst like this in a long time. I'm I'm a thirsty boy now.

Matt:

What's a bang without a fang?

Rachel:

Can you have a bang with fangs? These are all questions.

Matt:

If you're

Matt:

a vampire, it's it's necessary according to the Garrett Wayne Davies playgirl interview.

Rachel:

Yes. And then Lacroix

Matt:

vampire mythology.

Rachel:

Lacroix, in order to cleanse himself from this feeling of altruism, quotes scripture, or he may quote paradise lost, but it's about the sons of Belial or whatever. And then he's like, paradise lost. And then that's the end of the episode. Nick got possessed. He got LaCroix to help him.

Rachel:

LaCroix had to make compromises he wasn't comfortable making. And then Nick got better. And now he might actually be we're not gonna talk about it anymore, so it doesn't really like, we're never ever ever gonna mention that he somehow got worse because he got possessed by a demon. I hope you all enjoyed that because it's gonna disappear into the wings now. I wish we had I mean, that would have been I feel like so I think Meg and I talked about this, the vamping out with Meg episode.

Rachel:

But when you say you're a vampire fan, there's this connotation that generally pops up, which is, I like weird things and kinky sex, and I'm a goth, and there's this, like, vampire fan, and you could just slot all of these preconceptions into it. And some of them are right. Some of them are not right. I feel like there's several camps of vampire fans. It's not a blanket statement.

Rachel:

There's people who like horror vampires. Like, I'm never gonna watch 30 days of night. I'm just not interested in it. I like vampires a lot. I hate horror vampires.

Rachel:

I also will read romance novel vampires only because it's the only thing that is not horror vampires that's available to read. But there's this middle ground of vampirism as metaphor for difference.

Matt:

For being othered?

Rachel:

For being othered. And that is, like, the, fucking sweet spot. But in order to do that, you can have no cheating. So forever night kinda walks the line and that Nick drinks cow blood. It's okay.

Rachel:

I Nick

Matt:

But they I think it kind of consistently conveys that, yes, Nick is drinking cow blood, but there are downsides to that. He's there's something fundamental to vampire nature that is not getting satisfied by the cow blood.

Rachel:

Right.

Matt:

It's just it's like you can't eat any, like, tasty food. You can only eat, like, this gray slop. Yeah.

Matt:

That

Matt:

has yes. It has all the calories and nutrients and, you know, protein and all the it covers your macros. Yeah. But But it's

Rachel:

not actual food.

Matt:

There's a whole other dimension of, like, taste and, like, consumption of food and drink that is, like, a huge component to human experience.

Rachel:

Yeah.

Matt:

And if all you could eat was gruel for every meal every day, there's a whole, like, chunk of your potential lived experience that you're missing out on. Yeah. And we don't do it a lot. But every once in a while, we hit on yeah. Nick is, like, the vampire equivalent of, like, asceticism.

Matt:

Like Yeah.

Rachel:

I he's He's a stoic.

Matt:

He's depriving himself of this positive experience.

Rachel:

He's he's depriving himself of how vampires feel life. Yes. Yeah. Yeah. And that is no other vampire property has ever really touched on that in the way that Forever Knight does, which is, I think, why it has the lasting power it does for people who like that sweet spot of vampire mythology.

Matt:

Mhmm.

Rachel:

I mean, you get Vampire Diaries, but the first little part of Vampire Diaries is kind of like that. But after a while, everybody's a vampire or a witch or a werewolf or a whatever, and you're like, okay. If everybody's special, nobody is. Well, now I've completely lost my interest in this. And it brings me back to that textbook or that book that that lady wrote about the inherent queerness of of horror and how I really wanna get that textbook and or that book.

Rachel:

I think it's a textbook, but it's like a book textbook, whatever, and read it because, yes, the idea of otherness, the idea of the thing that you are is perceived as evil by other people, but you do not perceive yourself as evil is inherently queer narrative, especially in the world that we live in right now where people who are different are seen as morally bankrupt in some way.

Matt:

Right.

Rachel:

As opposed to just I have a different lifestyle from you, not requiring you to live my lifestyle. I it has nothing to do with you. It is about me living my authentic life. And yet what happens when your authentic life is something you cannot live openly because of the constraints of society or because being an authentic person means you straight up murder people, and that's not the one that

Matt:

I have to take off of off my I am a Kannuff hoodie before I go get my oil changed.

Rachel:

Correct.

Matt:

Yeah.

Rachel:

Exactly. And that is the story I like to hear about. That is what I that is what I am here for with vampirism is, like, vampirism as metaphor for being othered. Because and I think that that is a place that we could mine a lot of good stories from right now.

Matt:

That's, like, mythological, like, archetypal level narrative.

Rachel:

Right. And I think it's a place that it's needed right now because there are a lot of people who do feel othered, who do feel like they have to hide who they are. And how can if you can't explore that explicitly, then you need to explore that metaphorically or implicitly.

Matt:

Right.

Rachel:

You need to have these stories about monsters who are not monsters, who are only monsters because of what society perceives them as being. And I just finished reading Frankenstein, and maybe that's why I'm, like, waxing metaphorical about it. And I'm still figuring out how I feel about Frankenstein. Like, I know what we're supposed to get from it is that Frankenstein is the bad guy and that the monster was only a bad guy because Frankenstein never took responsibility for his actions, sort of. But at the same time, I'm like, I need this time with this because it's so sad, and everybody's sad, and nobody's good.

Rachel:

And it's just like, I don't know what I was supposed to learn. And I think that's why even with all of its flaws, I really like forever night because it does try to be clear for the most part about who the good guys and the bad guys are. Mhmm. So, yes, Nick is othered. Yes.

Rachel:

Nick is not able to be himself because of societal restraints, but Nick is trying to be a good guy. And we know for sure he is trying to be a good guy. And sometimes he throws people off of walkways, and sometimes he kills people not with his teeth. But, ultimately, he is trying to be good.

Matt:

It's always a reactionary.

Rachel:

Right.

Matt:

Death.

Rachel:

He's never like, I'm setting out to kill somebody today because today feels like a good day to kill somebody.

Matt:

Right.

Rachel:

And the push and pull between wanting to be himself, I think it's like the metaphor for wanting to be human is, like, he wants to be able to be himself

Matt:

with people. Mhmm.

Rachel:

Because right now, he can't be himself. He has to be who people want him to be because it's part of how you survive as a vampire when you wanna be a part of the human world. And he's not willing to give up the human world, which means the only way to be authentically himself and still be a hue in the human world is to be human.

Nick:

Mhmm.

Rachel:

And so I think, ultimately, what Nick is striving for is authenticity in his life. And I think that's a theme that resonates strongly and timelessly no matter how timely the show itself feels. And I wish somebody would pick up on that and give us another show like this. Why has there only why? I this is what I don't understand.

Rachel:

Why are there not stories in this niche? Why where are they? They're either, I'm a 500 year old dude, and I'm fucking this 18 year old woman that I or this girl, this 18 year old girl that I am inexplicably drawn to. And she's, like, really mature, so it's totally fucking okay. Or there's horror vampires like Salem's Lot, or there's I am literature vampires.

Rachel:

They're like, I am literature. I am so literature that I'm not even really a vampire. I'm just holy metaphor. And it's like, no. I want something right in between literature and romance where it's like real people doing real stuff living in the real world while having to deal with this one thing that makes them different.

Rachel:

If you have a book that's like that, tell me about it, and I will read it. Okay? I will fucking read that tomorrow. Matt knows. Every once in a while, I'll just be sitting on the couch looking through TV shows and movies, and he's like, what are you looking for?

Rachel:

And I'm like, I'm looking for a good vampire movie, or I'm looking for a good vampire TV show. And do you know how often I find them? Fucking never. And yet here I am. I know you're just looking at me like, thank you for that rant.

Rachel:

And I just wanna say thank you for sitting there and letting me get all that out.

Matt:

You're welcome.

Rachel:

I needed to get that out. It's just a consistent complaint of me and lots of the people that I know where it's like, this is what we want, and no one is giving it to us. No one is writing this, and I don't know why. Because it's a good story. This is a good story.

Rachel:

Forever night is a good story. Why did we only tell it once? Moonlight does not count. I think that's a question we all need to ask. And if we knew the answer, maybe we'd

Nick:

know a

Matt:

lot more about life.

Rachel:

Yeah. I guess we'll just leave it there. Until next

Matt:

time, friends.

Rachel:

Bye. Bye.

Nick:

Really, Nicholas, such crass showmanship?

Forever Knight (Season 3 Ep 11) - "Sons of Belial"

headphones Listen Anywhere

More Options »
Broadcast by